New PLD job ability/trait merits

[csBahamut]

Re: New PLD job ability/trait merits

Compared to what other jobs got, I'm very disappointed in what PLD got.

Iron Will: Useless. Between the recast timer of rampart, duration of rampart, how PLD uses Rampart, and the benifit, this trait is pointless. Ok, so say we save Rampart for when we need the -interruption. By the time the JA goes off, you won't be able to finish casting in time before you're dead.
Grade: D- to F

Gaurdian: Somewhat usefull. We already do great at holding hate on HNMs. We have problems in ingame exp/merit parties, but the recast timer on Sentinel combined with the crappy duration make this useless in merits/exp. This is really only handy for those spamfest fights like DL, or Shen. Even then, it may not help at all.
Grade: C- to D+

Fealty: This one could be great, depending on recast time , duration, and effectiveness. Resisting Terror, or paralyze spam is a BIG bonus. Even if the effects are strong though, a duration and recast like Sentinel/Rampart put this as mildly useful.
Grade: A- to C+

Chivalry: Well, this one looks extremely good at first, it could turn out to be a complete waste depending on several factors. The TP >> MP conversion ratio. If it's like Moonlight/Starlight, then this is a complete waste of TP usage. Especially if the recast time is like rampart/sentinel. For merit/exp parties, my WS damage is a lot more valuable than some measly MP back. For HNMs, TP gain is slow, even with the shield update. Even then, you sometimes have to hold back for sharing hate with other tanks., thus making the extra MP useless. The one possibly saving grace for this JA is the use in soloing. Even then, a long recast time would ruin it.
Grade: A- to E


Most of the abilities look to be geared more towards HNMs and NMs, rather than exping/meriting.

[Icemage]

Re: New PLD job ability/trait merits

Most of the abilities look to be geared more towards HNMs and NMs, rather than exping/meriting.

Completely agree with your above estimations with the same reservations, but, considering these are merit-only abilities, doesn't it make more sense to focus on a Paladin's role at end-game as a tank? It's not like most of us are just dying to XP even more because we enjoy it after 75 levels of (probably multiple) jobs.

I think a lot of the opinions currently being posted about the new merit abilities are incomplete observations from players who are not at end-game and thus have no idea why certain abilities would be more beneficial in such settings (believe me, I used to think Barspell effect was a terrible merit for WHMs until I saw what it could do against heavy elemental users like Tiamat).

EDIT: Should note I'm not including you in the above group, csBahamut. I know you've earned your stripes. Just saying I'm seeing a lot otherwise uninformed people who are mistakenly looking at them in an XP party context.


Icemage

[Raitox]

Re: New PLD job ability/trait merits

Hmmm... think of the possibilities... Say a PLD is low on MP, and a SAM is loaded with TP... Say the SAM has 150% TP, then the SAM would use Shikikoyo on the PLD, the PLD would get 150% TP, use chivalry, then get back 150 MP... SAM = The PLD Refresher?

[csBahamut]

Re: New PLD job ability/trait merits

Yeah, those are just my guesses so far. My opinion will most likely change as I find out how they fully operate.

I was just hoping for something that would help PLD get in more merit parties, but it looks like I still have to keep on my same style of meripo tanking. *sigh*

*EDIT*
Oh, and a RDM on another forum pointed out that we don't know how Phalanx II will work yet. Warp II let's you target other players, so it's possible that Phalanx II will let RDMs put Phalanx on PLDs (YAY!). If so, I'll be happy.

[Karinya]

Re: New PLD job ability/trait merits

Yeah, I'm looking at Iron Will in the context of a 2-PLD dynamis party where each of them has hate from 2+ mobs, or one of them may be tanking hundred fists. It looks far from useless in that situation, if the effect is strong.

Similarly Guardian could help you keep that EES on you and not some DD that's going to take 1400.

Fealty - we'll have to see, given the weakness of bar spells, if this actually has any noticeable effect or is just one more thing to spam on yourself for a little bit more hate. But it would be pretty sweet to resist paralyze, sleep, silence, charm, stun, terror, amnesia... and whatever the Star-Spawn of Cthulhu are going to hit us with.

It would be pointless to get merit abilities just to merit some more - they're obviously intended for Dynamis, Limbus, HNM fights, uncapped missions, maybe the high-rank assaults that will be out in a few more months.

As for Chivalry, I wonder how it will compare to Spirit Taker. If it has a similar MP returned/TP used ratio and doesn't require the use of a particular type of weapon, it could be quite nifty.

[Davitron3000]

Re: New PLD job ability/trait merits

I agree, they might not all be exactly what people wanted, or seem useful, but
we haven't even gotten to use them yet.

Also, the good thing about these is if you think they are not worth a merit, you don't
have to spend any on them.

[Icemage]

Re: New PLD job ability/trait merits

*EDIT*
Oh, and a RDM on another forum pointed out that we don't know how Phalanx II will work yet. Warp II let's you target other players, so it's possible that Phalanx II will let RDMs put Phalanx on PLDs (YAY!). If so, I'll be happy.

Phalanx II confirmed to be castable on other party members!

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/red...ge.spells.html

Hug your friendly neighborhood RDM, Paladins!


Icemage

[Davitron3000]

Re: New PLD job ability/trait merits

/em goes and buys his Redmage friends shiny new gifts

[Maju]

Re: New PLD job ability/trait merits

Phalanx II confirmed to be castable on other party members!

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/red...ge.spells.html

Hug your friendly neighborhood RDM, Paladins!

Ah yes, that is good news for <75 paladin exp parties and will probably be widely used in end game activities also. Unfortunately it is, yet again, useless for meriting.

It's true that merits that are only good for meriting more would be a bit pointless. I guess it's not necessarily bad that they're aimed at HNMS and so on. I still say the spell interruption down effect for rampart is entirely useless, though. The added hate to sentinel is also probably not that big of a deal since I don't really see PLD lose hate anyway.

I just realized how unlikely it is for a <75 PLD to have Phalanx II cast on them in an exp pt. /slapsface

[onorok]

Re: New PLD job ability/trait merits

I think key things to remember are that you have to be level 75 in a job to use merits in the job specific categories, and SE stated they wanted to re-establish PLD's role as a tank in endgame situations.

While the LS I'm in still has PLDs come as PLD/WAR for most events, a lot of LS's use PLD/NIN for tanking, and any additional hate tools you can get your hands on will help strenghten that combo, plus PLD/NIN in a Haste build (predominantly Homam gear) that can Flash more regularly and toss out Cure III's and IV's is going to help them build hate.

[csBahamut]

Re: New PLD job ability/trait merits

People are reporting a 20 min recast on Chivalry. Yes, SE did even worse than I thought they could do. Mybe there's a saving grace in fully meriting it-.-

[Lmnop]

Re: New PLD job ability/trait merits

I think someone on blue gartr said every merit in Chivalry lowered the recast by 2 minutes and 30 seconds.

[csBahamut]

Re: New PLD job ability/trait merits

Yeah, both Fealty and Chivalry are a 20 min base recast, with a reduction of 2.5 mins for each additional level. No clue if durations increase yet, but the text doesn't state so.

Well, I tried finding info on Chivalry (figured people would try it first), but I didn't find much but one person saying it's a 1:1 conversion ratio. Completely and utterly worthless to me.

So I dropped my 3 merits into levl 1 Fealty. While the 20 min recast sucks now, it performs as advertised. Duration is about 1 min, give or take a few second or so for human error. I went out with a group to check out the Soulflayers to try exping/meriting on them (a big no-no for TP-burn parties. Bring the traditional 3 Mage backline + tank + 2 DD's. SC+MB should kill their measly HP fast enough to keep them from using their NASTY JA's.). Well, 3 of the JA's did debuff effects, but I only had Fealty up for 2. An AoE Blind(strong, Blind II strength?)+Bio(40 HP/tick), AoE Curse, and Cone AoE Paralyze+damage. Both curse and blind were completely resisted. Didn't even land on me. These are VT-IT mobs too. I have Proto-Omega tomorrow (hopefully) to test it out as well. I'm hoping for some good results. Resisting stun and pertify would make this awsome for the last 10% HP.

[Armando]

Re: New PLD job ability/trait merits

Good to know Fealty is good. Someone on Allakhazam said he got Chivalry and it was a 1:1.5 ratio (150 MP gained for every 100 TP he used, he said.)

[Icemage]

Re: New PLD job ability/trait merits

My LS mates at 75 PLD were reporting approximately 1.33MP per 1TP.


Icemage