Tank/DD gear 50+

[wardog]

hiya all ^^
i got some lvl's and experience since my last post ^^
i'm actually lvl 52 PLD...and i have a little problem(well..maybe no ><)....
tanking, is not a problem, i can keep hate easily...(even with Freeze and other blm crazy things...) so i was thinking to turn some pieces of gear into DD gear to put higher dmg numbers....
but i don't know much about DD gear...
what should i look for?
STR or Attack?
is there some equipements that will make me do more dmg?
i've got a Tct espadon (http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/319)(dmg:38, delay:257, atk+12), i'm planning to get Wise Wizard's Anelace at lvl 55 (http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/271)
what else should i look for at my lvl...?
looking forward for some little help to more effective in party(or for solo/quests...gimme some gear configs please...i'm really lost with DD gear ><) ^^

p.s.:sorry for my bad english >< i hope you can understand what i'm trying to explain ><

[Maju]

Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

Weapon damage is the most important factor when picking a weapon. The Tactician Magician's Espadon has a higher damage value than the Wise Wizard's Anelace and thus will deal more damage even though it has a slightly lower DPS. This is because a faster attack speed won't let you WS any more often, but the WS damage is greater with a stronger weapon.

I myself use Royal Guard's Collar (L55, +4 acc +4 atk, 5 def), Haubergeon (L59 +10 acc, +10 atk, +5 str, +5 dex, -5 agi, -20 eva, 45 def), Amemet Mantle +1 (L61 +2 str, +15 atk, 8 def). There are of course many possibilities depending on how much DD gear you want to wear and which slots you want to dedicate to it.

However, the easiest way to affect your stats is through food selection. Sushi will improve your damage output more than any armor ever will and defense food such as fish mithkabobs or tavnazian tacos will give you more defense than any armor upgrade ever will. Personally I feel the damage boost from sushi (bream sushi for the extra vit) greatly outperforms the usually rather small damage mitigation boost from defense food at higher levels.

Sushi + Defender seems to perform better for both damage output and damage mitigation than defense food + no Defender, but even with sushi I only use defender when I feel the mob's damage is causing a too large strain on my party's MP regeneration and that doesn't happen against most mobs.

[Armando]

Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

Weapon damage is the most important factor when picking a weapon. The Tactician Magician's Espadon has a higher damage value than the Wise Wizard's Anelace and thus will deal more damage even though it has a slightly lower DPS. This is because a faster attack speed won't let you WS any more often, but the WS damage is greater with a stronger weapon.

This is correct, although I don't think it'd come into play at this level, since Fast Blade is definetely more than losing its luster, and Seraph Blade can easily put out more consistent decent numbers even with resists (on EXP party mobs, that is.)

Fortunately, there's a sword that outperforms both Tct.Mag. Espadon and W.W. Anelace...T.M. Espadon +1 XD The lower Delay is enough to put it at a higher DMG/sec. It also comes earlier than W.W. Anelace (Lv.52) and is cheaper than both swords. Or, if you really want to go for the best, and have the money for it, pick up a T.M. Espadon +2. Now THAT is a nice sword.

I myself use Royal Guard's Collar (L55, +4 acc +4 atk, 5 def), Haubergeon (L59 +10 acc, +10 atk, +5 str, +5 dex, -5 agi, -20 eva, 45 def), Amemet Mantle +1 (L61 +2 str, +15 atk, 8 def). There are of course many possibilities depending on how much DD gear you want to wear and which slots you want to dedicate to it.

Goddamn, man, I wish I had your gear. I'm hoping to get Haubergeon and Woodsman Rings (already have the collar) once I do some more BCNMs.

However, the easiest way to affect your stats is through food selection. Sushi will improve your damage output more than any armor ever will and defense food such as fish mithkabobs or tavnazian tacos will give you more defense than any armor upgrade ever will. Personally I feel the damage boost from sushi (bream sushi for the extra vit) greatly outperforms the usually rather small damage mitigation boost from defense food at higher levels.

Sushi + Defender seems to perform better for both damage output and damage mitigation than defense food + no Defender, but even with sushi I only use defender when I feel the mob's damage is causing a too large strain on my party's MP regeneration and that doesn't happen against most mobs.

You hit the nail right on the head. Haven't tried sushi yet (still trying to get parties as PLD/RDM) but once you start checking "High Defense" to mobs, further raising your Defense only decreases minimum damage, not max, so your average damage scales down slower.

[Standablaze]

Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

hiya all ^^
i got some lvl's and experience since my last post ^^
i'm actually lvl 52 PLD...and i have a little problem(well..maybe no ><)....
tanking, is not a problem, i can keep hate easily...(even with Freeze and other blm crazy things...) so i was thinking to turn some pieces of gear into DD gear to put higher dmg numbers....
but i don't know much about DD gear...
what should i look for?
STR or Attack?
is there some equipements that will make me do more dmg?
i've got a Tct espadon (http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/319)(dmg:38, delay:257, atk+12), i'm planning to get Wise Wizard's Anelace at lvl 55 (http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/271)
what else should i look for at my lvl...?
looking forward for some little help to more effective in party(or for solo/quests...gimme some gear configs please...i'm really lost with DD gear ><) ^^

p.s.:sorry for my bad english >< i hope you can understand what i'm trying to explain ><

You should keep with tank gear, not DD. You hold hate fine now but when DDs like DRKs and RNG are starting to hit 500+ weapon skills very often you are going to run into problems if you have STR gear. You aren't built or designed for dealing damage, just as a SAM or DRK isnt designed to take hits often.

[Maju]

Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

You should keep with tank gear, not DD. You hold hate fine now but when DDs like DRKs and RNG are starting to hit 500+ weapon skills very often you are going to run into problems if you have STR gear. You aren't built or designed for dealing damage, just as a SAM or DRK isnt designed to take hits often.

This is just plain wrong. What good is some added defense if you have no downtime anyway? At that point you might as well speed up the killing by increasing your damage output. More damage also means more enmity.

Also, how does RNG and DRK weapon skill damage have anything to do with wearing STR gear?

[Davitron3000]

Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

I think it is all about the style you like to tank, and what others are doing
in your party. Both ways can work. I was never an offensive style Paladin. The
most I ever did was use Life belt and R.G. Collar and Company Sword (which is a
great item and when I used it party would ask, "why you using that? it has no good
stats" )

It also depends on what you are fighting/how hard you are getting hit.

Taking a lot of extra damage and creating downtime because you are wearing DD
gear doesn't help, but neither does playing like a "turtle" and not being able to keep
the mob on you. I was thought it was best to err in the way of balance.

[Maju]

Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

I think it is all about the style you like to tank, and what others are doing
in your party. Both ways can work. I was never an offensive style Paladin. The
most I ever did was use Life belt and R.G. Collar and Company Sword (which is a
great item and when I used it party would ask, "why you using that? it has no good
stats" )

It also depends on what you are fighting/how hard you are getting hit.

Taking a lot of extra damage and creating downtime because you are wearing DD
gear doesn't help, but neither does playing like a "turtle" and not being able to keep
the mob on you. I was thought it was best to err in the way of balance.

It all comes down to downtime. You add defense until there is zero downtime. After that adding defense will result in you taking less damage, but since you regain MP faster than you can use it, it desn't make your PT any more effective. That's when you can start sacrificing defense for offense. Personally I enjoy the offensive style more.

[wardog]

Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

i just wanted to put more damages...
since hate is ok now for me...i was thinking of helping my party chain mobs faster...
that's why i asked...i'm fighting crabs and helm beetles at my lvl...idk why but,
hate seems very well since lvl 45...
that's why i'm asking about DD gear ^-^ it's just to help my party slash/kill/burn faster ^^
if DD gear don't work well, i always can switch between fights....

p.s.:i'll look for a T.M +1 or +2 sword, is it really worth the price?

[Armando]

Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

T.M. Espadon +1 is 50k in Midgardsormr, +2 is 400k. Wether the +2 is worth the price or not is up to you, but there's very little reason not to get the +1 with how the prices are (the NQ is 100k if I remember right.)

[csBahamut]

Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

There seems to be 3 styles of tanking with PLDs. Those who go all out defense and rely on cures and JA's to hold hate (defensive style). Then there's those who get enough defense to just before the point of diminishing returns, then put in gear to get more hate through damage, adjusting gear to best perform on the mob (adaptive style). Lastly, there's those who go almost all out attack (offensive style). All three work great, but are only most efficient in certain situations.

Defensive style:
This is typically what most new PLDs think they should be doing, and will be doing their whole career. That is so far from the truth. The adaptive style is the one they will be using the most. The defensive style only works best on enemies that a PLD cannot even hope to hit. These would be the mobs that even DD's using sushi have a 60% or less accuracy on. These include IT+++++, high level NMs, and HNMs. Another possible use for this style is on extremely hard hitting mobs, like low IT Wyverns or Demons in some situations.

While this style may look like it will produce the "lowest downtime" in exp parties, it does not. That's because if your DD's are actually good, they'll either rip hate off the PLD, or have to hold back to conserve MP. This is because the PLD only has JAs and cures to hold hate with. Damage is the KING of hate (cures are considered part of damage). A PLD can't use all their JA's in one fight either, otherwise they won't have any for the next fight. This means the PLD has to spam cures to keep hate (along with provoke). The more a PLD has to cure, the more MP they'll need to rest between fights. Of course, with a full defense setup, they may not take enough damage to spam cure themself.

Adaptive style:
This is the style a PLD should be using most of their leveling career. This style is handy in a few other places like Limbus and BCNMs. This style involves carrying alternate pieces of gear to fit the situation. Taking too little damage? Swap in an accuracy or attack piece. Taing too much damage? Put on more VIT of defense. It's all about adapting to the mob. Sometimes just mob type will tell you what to use (after learning what to use). They party setup can also affect what gear the PLD should use. This style relies on a combination of cures, JA's, and damage to hold hate. Damage is king of hate, and because of that, just a little bit of PLD damage can be enough to make your hate from cures and JA's keep you on the top of the hate list. This style also reduces downdime the most. Why? Better hate control and faster kill times. By just taking a few more points of damage a hit, the PLD can output enough damage to kill the mob 2-5+ attack rounds faster. This sames more MP from needing to cure less attacks, and kills the mob sooner so that resting can begin sooner, and the next pull can come that much sooner. THis style also depends on having a good WHM that knows how to effectively rest back MP during battle and use regens to their fullest. This style also lets the PLD save JA's more for when they're needed to boost hate quick when a DD steals hate, instead of a main source of building hate.

This is the style I leveled PLD to 75 on, and it's what I use to keep up in hate with NIN and WAR/NIN tanks in Limbus. A purely defensive build stands NO chance at holding hate (excluding the bosses, but that's the beauty of this style, the PLD can adapt!).

Offensive style:
This style involves wearing gear to do damage, but without sacrificing too much defense or VIT. Gear that adds to damage and defense work the best. The PLD takes more damage with this setup (20-30 more damage per hit), but is still typically less than a DD would be hit for. This build holds even more hate through damage, with some supplement from cures and JA's. This style typically only works well in TP/WS-burn parties. This is because fights will only last 30-40 seconds each, so the PLD can not rely on JA's or cures for hate. The battle will be over before the second provoke sometimes, but it would be a waste to provoke twice on one mob. Another mob will be attacked right after the one being fought is killed. The other JA's can't be relied on since the recast timers are 5 mins! Even using one a fight will leave you JA-less after 4 fights. Fights are also so fast that the PLD may only have time to get one cure off. Two at most. That's why this style only works in Burn parties.

I used to think the adaptive style was an offensive style until I started doing burn parties. Adaptive style cannot put up the damage numbers to hold hate off a puppy in WS-burn parties. When DD's WS right off the bat, only like damage will keep hate. Thus I realized that the adaptive style and offensive style were two different things.

I hope that gives you a good idea of different ways to tank. Now, you also wanted info on how to do more damage as PLD. For a PLD, you need accuracy first and formost. Second, don't touch defender. Third, get +atk after you can hit enough. Fourth, get WS swap gear for WSes. The TM+1 sword is definitely a good choice. Getting a Venerer's ring and a Life Belt will help as well.

[Standablaze]

Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

This is just plain wrong. What good is some added defense if you have no downtime anyway? At that point you might as well speed up the killing by increasing your damage output. More damage also means more enmity.

Also, how does RNG and DRK weapon skill damage have anything to do with wearing STR gear?

Because I've seen Paladins using STR gear instead of DEF gear and it was grim. They don't do much extra damage either, isn't worth the hassle. I would certainly feel more comfortable with a good tank that could take more hits instead of giving them out.

As far as I knew, STR helps damage output, yes? I dont have it yet but I've heard weapon skills like guillotine are based on STR as well as other stats.

[wardog]

Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

thanks everyone for your help.
i got a Tigers stole(+5atk) , 2 rings +2 str each, and bought a TM espadon+1...
with that increased dmg!should be enough for now ^-^ , swap gear if i have problems tanking (verve rings for +vit and mediaval Collar)
thanks for your help.. (^^)(_ _)(^^)
btw...TM espadon+1 really makes a difference OO

[dirtyclown]

Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

This thread makes me lol. One thing I'd like to point out that nobody has mentioned is that there's no such thing as DPS. This game's time runs by frames, as pointed out by Grendal a long time ago, so any attempts to calculate weapon damage by seconds is inaccurate. Second, we're all on a sliding scale for defense after level 50, so even bothering to worry about your defense is pointless. That doesn't mean go out and buy Sniper's rings ASAP, it means use your damn brain. Everyone who tanks in this game does it differently, and experiences different things. Diff'rent strokes, amirite? Basically what I'm saying is there is no "right" way to do things. See what works for you, and do it.

[Maju]

Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

This thread makes me lol. One thing I'd like to point out that nobody has mentioned is that there's no such thing as DPS. This game's time runs by frames, as pointed out by Grendal a long time ago, so any attempts to calculate weapon damage by seconds is inaccurate.

Of course there is a thing called DSP no matter how the game's time runs. Even if the delay of a weapon is counted by how many frames there are between each swing, there is still going to be a certain ammount of swings per second and thus we can calculate the DPS for a weapon.

[dirtyclown]

Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

Of course there is a thing called DSP no matter how the game's time runs. Even if the delay of a weapon is counted by how many frames there are between each swing, there is still going to be a certain ammount of swings per second and thus we can calculate the DPS for a weapon.

Not accurately you can't, what with lag etc. Damage Per Frame. Srsly.

P.S. Haruhi needs to die in a fire. :D