Tank/DD gear 50+

[dirtyclown]

Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

Enmity + gear would probably help just as well. Getting both Enmity and attack + would be even better, which is what I decided to do. Rather than stack up on defense and enmity gear I've got a few + attack/strength pieces that I swap in on occasions when I can afford to take a few extra points of damage and keep hate solid enough to not lose it to big WSes, MBs, etc. The party I was in last night was very awesome. I was hitting for around 40-60 with crits doing about 80, sometimes more. I was using a Dragvandil instead of my Gluttony sword because I forgot to bring it along. We only partied for about an hour and a half but we gained about 8k in that time, had zero downtime due to low MP, and even got to beat on the NM that drops o-bow.

[raidenn]

Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

Just put on some rings that boost your hp and def. Not sure why you're a paladin if you want to go DD... Spirits Within hits hard if your hp is good at that time. THat might help. Berserk + Double Attack already makes a big difference with DDs.

[dirtyclown]

Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

Are YOU a Paladin? If you were then you'd know that Defense stops being worth a damn right around the time you get access to Spirits Within. How much do you think a pair of HP rings would boost Spirits? Not much, I can tell you that. And that goes without mentioning the fact that Spirits sucks for DoT. It's spike damage is only good for maintaining hate in parties where your melees are pulling way too much hate with their WSes and you've no other choice. The entire point of this thread is to discuss how Paladins can improve themselves beyond stacking defense and vit, which loses it's flavor rather quickly.

[raidenn]

Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

Well thats why it is a TANKING class. If you want damage use a DAMAGE DEALER class.Thats why there is a party. Everyone contributes. Theres no easy way to hold hate against damage dealers and magic bursts, thats why you have other classes with hate management abilities. Also you have Cover, Shield Bash, Rampart, Defender, Provoke and Warcry. Asking the party members to do their skillchains after you have provoked more than 2x helps.

This game would be way too boring then if anyone has no weakness.

[csBahamut]

Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

The idea now is to get your defense and VIT to a level where you stop seeing efficient enough gains. For most meriting parties, it's a little over 400 def. That's easy to reach in DD gear with protect IV. The actual number varias a little by mob and level, but 400 is the guideline number I use until I mix and match my gear to taking comfortable damage. What I consider comfortable damage is 80-120 unblocked. Shield blocks would be 20-40. That again is reached easily by my 400 def guideline. This leaves some leeway is using DD gears to speed up kills, thus saving more MP in the long run, assuming the kills are fast enough. It's much better if you keep hate and get hit for 80-120, than the DD's taking hate and getting hit for 150-250, or DD's having to stop swinging to recast Utsusemi thus slowing down their DoT. You have to think of taking damage as reducing the entire party's damage, not just your own.

[Celeal]

Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

Enmity + gear would probably help just as well. Getting both Enmity and attack + would be even better, which is what I decided to do. Rather than stack up on defense and enmity gear I've got a few + attack/strength pieces that I swap in on occasions when I can afford to take a few extra points of damage and keep hate solid enough to not lose it to big WSes, MBs, etc. The party I was in last night was very awesome. I was hitting for around 40-60 with crits doing about 80, sometimes more. I was using a Dragvandil instead of my Gluttony sword because I forgot to bring it along. We only partied for about an hour and a half but we gained about 8k in that time, had zero downtime due to low MP, and even got to beat on the NM that drops o-bow.

If you are using Dragvandil, I am assuming that your PLD is lvl 59+? May I ask what mob are you fighting against? 40~60 dmg per hit is very high for a PLD tank. Since you have mentioned NM that drops o-bow, I assume your party is xp-ing in Gustav Tunnel. Is that 40~60 per hit on Robber Carb (which should be T or low VT at lvl 59+) or those Goblin (VT at lvl 59+)?

[dirtyclown]

Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

If you are using Dragvandil, I am assuming that your PLD is lvl 59+? May I ask what mob are you fighting against? 40~60 dmg per hit is very high for a PLD tank. Since you have mentioned NM that drops o-bow, I assume your party is xp-ing in Gustav Tunnel. Is that 40~60 per hit on Robber Carb (which should be T or low VT at lvl 59+) or those Goblin (VT at lvl 59+)?

Both Goblins and Crabs. We were chaining them nonstop, so the extra damage I was able to inflict helped alot, otherwise I'd probably have lost hate alot more often. I was wearing full tank gear too save for the sword, which surprised me. Normally my damage doesn't get that high.

Well thats why it is a TANKING class. If you want damage use a DAMAGE DEALER class.Thats why there is a party. Everyone contributes. Theres no easy way to hold hate against damage dealers and magic bursts, thats why you have other classes with hate management abilities. Also you have Cover, Shield Bash, Rampart, Defender, Provoke and Warcry. Asking the party members to do their skillchains after you have provoked more than 2x helps.

This game would be way too boring then if anyone has no weakness.

You missed the point entirely. We all know why it's called a Tanking class, so there's no need to bold your words for the less observant among us. The point of this thread is to present a way for us to contribute even more to the party rather than just sitting there and taking shots to the face like normal. And from what you seem to be suggesting about "Hate management" abilities, it sounds like you're saying a Thief is required. That makes me lol. Major for Thieves, but still. The idea presented here is for improved DoT, which for us is rather weak. With more DoT, we generate more hate, we take fewer hits, less MP is spent, etc. Everybody wins. It's a better way to go about tanking than the "old" method, so why are you against it?

By the way, we still suck a whole bunch at DoT compared to a true DD class. The weaknesses are still there, we just covered over them with cheap white paint.

[Davitron3000]

Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

Well thats why it is a TANKING class. If you want damage use a DAMAGE DEALER class.Thats why there is a party. Everyone contributes. Theres no easy way to hold hate against damage dealers and magic bursts, thats why you have other classes with hate management abilities. Also you have Cover, Shield Bash, Rampart, Defender, Provoke and Warcry. Asking the party members to do their skillchains after you have provoked more than 2x helps.
This game would be way too boring then if anyone has no weakness.

I just wanted to share a story...

I have been leveling Ninja (because it is fun and I like to tank stuff), and a while back
I got an invite from this Paladin. (I can't remember the exact level we were, but
it was around 57). I thought this was strange, and when I got into the party I of
course checked all members and saw this Paladin was Pld/nin. At first I was like,
oh no, this guy has been reading the forums and thinks Pld/nin can work at all levels.
Well, I am not one to not try almost any party set up out (some of my best/most fun
parties have been non-traditional party set ups) so we set up camp and I ask the
Paladin if I can check his gear. This guy was decked out: Rajas, Hauby, some haste
stuff I think, etc... (I couldn't remember his exact set up)

This guy was ripping stuff and was the best DD in the party. I was having a lot
of trouble keeping the mob off of him. So I suppose the point of my story is that
geared up correctly Paladin can play a fine DD (not to mention he was able to flash
and heal so he added some support also). Really this guy was DDing, tanking, and
doing some back up healing, lol. The more I think about it, maybe I was leeching
experience points, haha.

Anyways, just wanted to share that experience with you guys...

[Celeal]

Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

Both Goblins and Crabs. We were chaining them nonstop, so the extra damage I was able to inflict helped alot, otherwise I'd probably have lost hate alot more often. I was wearing full tank gear too save for the sword, which surprised me. Normally my damage doesn't get that high.


You missed the point entirely. We all know why it's called a Tanking class, so there's no need to bold your words for the less observant among us. The point of this thread is to present a way for us to contribute even more to the party rather than just sitting there and taking shots to the face like normal. And from what you seem to be suggesting about "Hate management" abilities, it sounds like you're saying a Thief is required. That makes me lol. Major for Thieves, but still. The idea presented here is for improved DoT, which for us is rather weak. With more DoT, we generate more hate, we take fewer hits, less MP is spent, etc. Everybody wins. It's a better way to go about tanking than the "old" method, so why are you against it?

By the way, we still suck a whole bunch at DoT compared to a true DD class. The weaknesses are still there, we just covered over them with cheap white paint.

40 ~ 60 dmg for a 40 dmg sword sound about right, in this situation. In this case I would eat sushi and mix in some DD gear too

[Releena]

Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

Just put on some rings that boost your hp and def. Not sure why you're a paladin if you want to go DD... Spirits Within hits hard if your hp is good at that time. THat might help. Berserk + Double Attack already makes a big difference with DDs.

Spirits Within is terrible at 100TP. It does a lot of damage at 300TP, but you can't do that every fight. IMO, it's more important to have consistent hate every fight rather than have extra hate every 2-3 fights.

Well thats why it is a TANKING class. If you want damage use a DAMAGE DEALER class.Thats why there is a party. Everyone contributes. Theres no easy way to hold hate against damage dealers and magic bursts, thats why you have other classes with hate management abilities. Also you have Cover, Shield Bash, Rampart, Defender, Provoke and Warcry. Asking the party members to do their skillchains after you have provoked more than 2x helps.
This game would be way too boring then if anyone has no weakness.

Unfortunately that's not how the game works. Damage is a huge part of holding hate in an exp party, and this becomes truly apparent to any PLD at higher level when you aren't able to fight only IT++ mobs. You can see this at lower level when fighting VTs or when you have a BRD and some good DDs.

You offer a selfish and prideful solution, "I don't want to lose hate, so I'm gonna tell you guys to hold back a lot and artificially increase the time needed to kill the mob," which comes at the expense of XP/hr. If someone takes damage just cure them and get hate back(WAR/NIN causes problems with this).

I used to wear Gallant Surcoat, Warrior's Belt +1, and Medieval Collar but lately I've switched to Haubergeon +1, Life Belt, and Peacock Charm and I feel that I'm holding hate just as well or better than the defensive setup. I do have full sword merits though, so your mileage may vary.