Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Tank/DD gear 50+

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

    God, not the "there is no DPS" thing again.

    Ok, there is no way to say that x weapon will do y damage per second. Varying monsters have varyind Defense and VIT, yadda yadda yadda. However, that doesn't change the fact that DMG is pretty much linear (i.e. high DMG doesn't have any special defense-piercing properties and whatnot) and weapons have linear Delay (400 Delay is twice the time as 200 Delay, etc.) Thus, if the weapon has no other properties, DMG/Delay is the indication of how efficient the weapon is at doing damage. It's not rocket science. Consider a weapon with 20 DMG and 200 Delay. Consider a weapon with 22 DMG and 600 Delay. Naturally, the first does more damage.

    Of course, Delay comes in extremely high numbers, so when you divide DMG by Delay you get extremely low ratios. It's far more convenient to divide DMG by seconds.

    DMG/sec IS an actual measurement of a weapon's efficiency. It is true that it doesn't take into account outside factors such as +stats on the weapon, added effects, or WS; however, +2 Attack honestly is not going to make a whit of a difference in the long run compared to DMG and Delay, and we've already established that higher DMG = more powerful WS. T.M. Espadon +1 is the superior weapon.

    Oh, and as far as I know, lag will not affect your attack cycles, I believe that's controlled completely server-side. The fact that you're not seeing it at the correct time is a completely different issue.

    One thing I'd like to point out that nobody has mentioned is that there's no such thing as DPS. This game's time runs by frames, as pointed out by Grendal a long time ago, so any attempts to calculate weapon damage by seconds is inaccurate.
    How can it possibly be inaccurate when there's a clear-cut Delay to Seconds conversion? 60 Delay = 1 second. If establish a specific STR bonus value and a hard-set Attack/Defense multiplier, you can very well calculate a weapon's damage per second within those established conditions.
    Last edited by Armando; 07-06-2006, 06:47 PM.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

      ...Where in the hell did that come from? I was only pointing out that DPS is inaccurate, I wasn't trying to start a debate or call the effectiveness of the T.M. Espadon into question.
      sigpic

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

        Sorry, it's really annoying that every time I go into a weapon discussion, someone has to say "DPS is inaccurate/there is no such thing as DPS in FFXI/this is not WoW" (although, I don't think anyone mentioned the term DPS either.) On top of that, I misconstrued what you were arguing. I apologize, that was uncalled for.

        There is no difference between DMG per second and DMG per frame other than the units, though. That's like saying there's a difference between, I don't know, miles per hour and miles per minute.
        Last edited by Armando; 07-06-2006, 06:46 PM.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

          Originally posted by Armando
          Sorry, but it's really annoying that every time I go into a weapon discussion, someone has to say "DPS is inaccurate/there is no such thing as DPS in FFXI/this is not WoW." Also, I don't think anyone here even mentioned the term DPS. Either way, sorry, I've been posting in Alla too much recently. I apologize.

          There is no difference between DMG per second and DMG per frame other than the units, though. That's like saying there's a difference between, I don't know, miles per hour and miles per minute.
          I say there's no DPS because of a post made by Grendal a long time ago explaining how alot of the game's mechanics work. It made sense to me that since the game is run by frames rather than a clock that DPF is the way to go for solid calculations. Not saying that DPS doesn't work, I'm just going by what I know.

          Getting back on topic, any aspiring Paladins would be wise to take everything they hear on this forum with a grain of salt, unless presented with tested formulas. I've learned from playing this game that nothing ever goes the same way twice, regardless of what you do. Fuck you, random number algorithm, you cruel son of a bitch.
          sigpic

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

            I think DPF is the one that doesn't work. >_> Frame rate change all the time; why on earth would S-E programmers tie our damage to the variable frame rate of our PS2 or PC or xBox? It makes no sense; it would mean people on slower computers would do less damage.

            DPD (damage per delay) and its equivalent DPS (damage per second) sound a lot more plausible.
            Bamboo shadows sweep the stars,
            yet not a mote of dust is stirred;
            Moonlight pierces the depths of the pond,
            leaving no trace in the water.

            - Mugaku

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

              Frames are counted serverside though, it has nothing to do with how good your connection/gaming setup is. From what I can tell, this game's engine is based on an enhanced version of the one found in the Seiken Densetsu games. It's just a theory of course, but there's alot of similarities between the two games.

              Edit: I worded that incorrectly. Frames/Delay is the same thing. Disregard my first sentence.
              Last edited by dirtyclown; 07-06-2006, 07:54 PM.
              sigpic

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

                Originally posted by dirtyclown
                Frames/Delay is the same thing.
                >_>

                That's really awful terminology; a frame is a full pagination of screen/draw port/whatver. A delay is a time unit, and does not imply any sort of drawing.

                To say they are the same is silly.

                Fighting game players tend to count in frames because the moves/actions are locked to frames instead of clock. (I think this is done for collision detection reasons, from 2-D fighter days.) Maybe that's why some people confuse frame with delay and other time units sometimes...

                * * *
                Back on topic (sort of); how often do PLD's find themselves in need of a DD setup, around Lv.50?
                Bamboo shadows sweep the stars,
                yet not a mote of dust is stirred;
                Moonlight pierces the depths of the pond,
                leaving no trace in the water.

                - Mugaku

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

                  In this case, a Frame and Delay are almost the same thing (unless you want to get nitpicky,) since 1 Delay represents 1 Frame. I can see what Dirtyclown is getting at, but I don't see why it matters so much; if lag is present, it's going to affect the outcome regardless of the units you decide to use

                  As for the question...in my opinion, it's good to have some offensive pieces of equipment. For example, I usually have more MP than I can deal with when I have Refresh on. Like Maju said earlier, if you're already at a point where you have little to no downtime, may as well add offense. Or, sometimes a piece of equipment is so good offensively, that it's worth increasing the damage you take by a little bit to increase your output by a more significant ammount. If I had the money right now, I'd be wearing Woodsman Rings.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

                    Originally posted by IfritnoItazura
                    >_>

                    That's really awful terminology; a frame is a full pagination of screen/draw port/whatver. A delay is a time unit, and does not imply any sort of drawing.

                    To say they are the same is silly.

                    Fighting game players tend to count in frames because the moves/actions are locked to frames instead of clock. (I think this is done for collision detection reasons, from 2-D fighter days.) Maybe that's why some people confuse frame with delay and other time units sometimes...

                    * * *
                    Back on topic (sort of); how often do PLD's find themselves in need of a DD setup, around Lv.50?
                    Protip: I'm silly, and my terminology is always awful, regardless of the situation. Another way to think of it is like this: Think of an animated flipbook. Each page represents 1 frame/delay.

                    As for the question, around level 50 there aren't a whole lot of options. Life Belt is good for enmity and damage in general, and as mentioned Woodsman rings work well too. Asura necklace might be a worthwhile option also, depending on what you're going for. I believe it's +1 to strength, vitality, dexterity and agility.
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

                      Honestly, I'd rather wear Spike Necklace over Ashura Necklace I also wore Ogygos's Bracelets through my 40's, but then I got some Rush Gloves and thought..."These are sweet!" If I didn't have the Rush Gloves, I'd probably had kept on wearing Ogygos's (ok, ok, I'll be honest...I got sick of wearing full armor and running around without anything on my hands...it looks so...retarded.) There's also Walkure/Valkyrie's Masks, which are excellent options for anyone wanting to put out more damage, but I didn't feel like using that much money at the time. Now I have my Gallant Coronet, which I have no intention of taking off X3 If Woodsman Rings are way beyond your budget, there's always Puissance Rings. Of course, R.K. Shield > T.K. Shield. I'd say Strike Shield, but then I'd take more damage than I'd like.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

                        You take that back! T.K. Shield is the winrar.
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

                          Off topic discussion on frame and delay. Again.
                          Bamboo shadows sweep the stars,
                          yet not a mote of dust is stirred;
                          Moonlight pierces the depths of the pond,
                          leaving no trace in the water.

                          - Mugaku

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

                            Well...the game was made to run at 60 frames per second, or so I understand it. Delay is simply the measurement of the number of frames between attack cycles. Thus, for every 60 Delay, 60 Frames elapse, and so does 1 second. Every user has a different framerate on their PC/PS2, true; but the attack cycles are controlled serverside, so there shouldn't be a difference between Person A's attack cycles and Person B's. In the server, 60 Delay should be the same as 60 Frames and 1 second. Or am I wrong?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

                              I don't know why it's so hard to convince people frame (draw/graphic) and delay (time duration) mean different things; I give up. I'll just PM if I want to continue this. -_-

                              Sorry to have bothered everyone.
                              Bamboo shadows sweep the stars,
                              yet not a mote of dust is stirred;
                              Moonlight pierces the depths of the pond,
                              leaving no trace in the water.

                              - Mugaku

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Tank/DD gear 50+

                                Do we have to be anal? Everyone in this conversation knows what the other person means, so why do we have to do this?

                                I know I sound nitpicky, but it's important to be precise when talking about game mechanics. Otherwise, why bother do things like using separate Attack and STR in damage equation? Just lump them together because "they are almost the same thing--they increase damage", right?
                                You're being incredibly nitpicky, and there's no reason for it. This whole thing started because I had to go and act retarded by trying to offer a more precise way of figuring things out. In the future I'll be sure to not even bother speaking, hopefully we'll be able to avoid things like this.

                                I don't know why it's so hard to convince people frame (draw/graphic) and delay (time duration) mean different things; I give up. I'll just PM if I want to continue this.
                                We acknowledged that from the beginning. See, this is why forums suck. Conversations turn into one big circlejerk because everybody thinks the other party misunderstands them when in fact most of the time they do.
                                sigpic

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X