Too much Vit and not enough hate!

[Djonma]

I'm having a real problem keeping hate at the moment.

I'm a level 46 taru pld and I have excellent gear for a taru pld; I have a lot of def and vit and hp.
I'm on 48+36 vit (I was on +37 but changed to the Heater Shield for more Def).

The problem I'm having is that mobs just aren't hitting me for enough damage. I'm not having to cure myself much unless the mob is IT++. As a result, I'm losing hate pretty easily, especially to our Taru blm.

Yesterday we had a pickup war who would use Aggressor, Berserk and Warcry all at once, which ripped hate off me easily. He'd often do it before my second voke as well.

I've tried using Flash a lot more for hate, but the recast time is so slow, and we're killing mobs before I get to use it a third time, sometimes a second.

I used to be brilliant with hate, but 13 levels with no new hate tools, whilst our blm is getting better and better spells and more and more int, and melee DD are getting more and more STR and better WS's is causing me a lot of trouble.

I'm planning on getting as much Enmity gear as I can, and macroing it in for my Vokes, but has anyone else got any tips?

I can post my gear if that would help.

[Jei]

Re: Too much Vit and not enough hate!

it's not only you. It's the taru Blm responsibility to not over nuke too. If flash/provoke isn't enough to pull hate back then your other PT members are doing something wrong.

Another VERY nice items you might want to look into is the high breathe mantle.
http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/8049
This thing helps me so much holding hate got tons easier with it.

[Djonma]

Re: Too much Vit and not enough hate!

He's not really overnuking as such, he just does a LOT of damage when he does land an unresisted spell.

The main problem was yesterday with the 2 pickup players, in particular that warrior.
But we had issues with them anyway so I couldn't try to explain how hate worked since they really didn't seem to understand how it worked and told me to cure myself when I didn't need it *sigh*

[Tsingtao]

Re: Too much Vit and not enough hate!

I'd say at 46 PLD you're in one of the tougher spots for hate. First suggestion would be if you're not buring through you MP due to lack of damage and this is an issue. Drop some defence and swap it for DD kit, some extra attack may help you and give you more damage to heal.

I've never really encountered the problem without over nukers as I tend to situational tank swapping in and out pieces. To much spike daamge load on def, when damage stabilises load on VIT, when hates an issue but the first 2 are ok remove VIt / Def for Attack / Accuracy. For WSes I macro in STR gear, for vorpal blade 60+ I macro Haubie, and spike necklace. On occasion I also drop AGI from ears for assault / spike earring.

Flexibility is key to tanking in my view.

[Djonma]

Re: Too much Vit and not enough hate!

Yeah, I think I need to switch some vit for def - On the whole I'm not taking much damage, but every now and then I'll get a real solid whack and have to drop in a Cure III straight away.

I'm going to really play around with my gear and see what works, thanks for the advice!

I have Pigeon Earring and Mercenary's Earring, by the way, not Agi, being a Taru.

[Tsingtao]

Re: Too much Vit and not enough hate!

Its always interesting to hear what the different races use. I'm a big fan of getting AGI up as high as I can to get the shield proc rate up there. It changes as you level as well, once you hit 52 and start colecting AF hate issues fade a lot with the + emnity.

I'm finding now sonce passing 70 I'm starting to mix in DD peices to my regular tank kit. Almost 100% of the time I now use life belt and amemet mantle. At times I'm also using sipah distanas, it really is just do what works.

In the weapon front I always carry the joyeuse, company sword and espandon +1. shields I'm currently just packing the generals but I've started shopping for one with attack + on.

[Djonma]

Re: Too much Vit and not enough hate!

Paladin definitely changes in end game; I know a lot of plds use DD gear for 70+.

As a Taru at this level, I've gone for as much def and vit and hp as I can squeeze in.
I've got fairly high base agi, so vit was my main focus.

As for AF; yes, there's a lot of enmity, but I lose a LOT of vit. I'm mostly planning on seeing how it goes with using AF for voke and then back to my +vit gear.

I guess I'm now at the stage where I have to really be careful about what I do, and see what effect it has on hate and damage taken.
Up until now I hadn't used gear swapping for paladin, but now I'm going to need it.

One of the things I love about pld though is that we really can do a lot of different things and still tank really well.

[Tirrock]

Re: Too much Vit and not enough hate!

Wear enmity full time, not just on provoke. Every swing you do builds hate, not just provoke/flash. Otherwise...try to talk your WHM into not keeping you at full HP. It's good practice for a WHM to -not- cure a PLD to full all the time, leaving them room to cure II (or cure III at higher levels) themselves for hate as they need it.

If you're in a party with decked out melees (or just decent equipped melees on VTs or with a BRD) you'll likely have some problems. There's not a whole lot you can do there. On those parties, shield bash at the start of one fight, then sentinel on the next fight can help keep hate solid. Cover if somebody does a massive weapon skill. (Especially if they're a WAR using warcry or a DRK using souleater.)

High Breath mantle is great. There's not much that you can wear on the back slot at that level anyway.

[Djonma]

Re: Too much Vit and not enough hate!

Our whm very rarely cures me now - it's a static so he knows what he's doing with regards to a pld ^^

As for wearing enmity full time - I don't think I can wear the AF full time cos I lose a TON of vit by equipping it.
That's something I'm a bit worried by.

[Tsingtao]

Re: Too much Vit and not enough hate!

VIT becomes less of an issue, the IM gorget and knightly mantle see to that. Couple that with vigor rings and you should have plenty. That is obviously not taking into account the whopping great +7 on the gluttony sword.

If you wear that lot I think alone you pick up +21 (ish). Personally I go for AGI as well, tavnazian tacos are your friend a good shield proc rate does more to keep damamge down thatn any other thing. (in my view)

[Davitron3000]

Re: Too much Vit and not enough hate!

Yesterday we had a pickup war who would use Aggressor, Berserk and Warcry all at once, which ripped hate off me easily. He'd often do it before my second voke as well.

Let your party know hate management is a party thing, not just the tanks
responsibility. In my opinion if someone wants to steal hate, then they
are ok with taking some hits/getting killed.

I would wear your whole AF when you can, it is a great set of all around gear and
as others have said, keep the enmity on the whole time. Use a High Breath Mantle.
+5 emnity is no joke, and you will probably benefit from the + hp.

Just my advice and good luck.

[Raydeus]

Re: Too much Vit and not enough hate!

Those lvls are kinda weird, everyone starts doing more damage while our emnity remains the same. It can be kinda tricky until you get AF but you'll find a way.

By the way are you getting Haste? Because that really affects how much hate we get, specially from Flash and you should use it every time you can unless the mob is about to die.

In my case I always start the fight with Voke and Flash, then either Shield Bash or Sentinel (only one of them per battle at that lvl) when the voke timer is around 15, that usually builds enough hate to get me to the next voke and then the next Flash.

I don't rely on Cures to get hate because many WHMs like keeping me at full HP. So unless we are fighting mobs with nasty TP moves I never have more than 100-200 HP below full for long.

[Lmnop]

Re: Too much Vit and not enough hate!

As Raydeus was saying... make sure you're hasted full time and using Flash every time it's up.

Next suggestion: Lifebelt. +10 acc is wonderous and it's not like there's anything groundbreaking in that slot (unless there's a new item that I"m not aware of >.>)

In my opinion if someone wants to steal hate, then they
are ok with taking some hits/getting killed.

/agree 100%. I'm often one of those DDs. Particularly when I'm war/nin. It's just more efficient for the party as a whole if I use Rampage before 2nd voke, tank 4 shadows, and gain tp anew instead of waiting 'til close to 200% for the same Dmg Rampage. It's not the whole "shadows=damage avoided" thing as much as it is the fact that it's inefficient to put myself that far behind on tp.

All DDs should learn that every JA draws hate. Warcry in particular, is no joke. Also, stacking attack buffs is usually retarded. >.> I typically use 'serk/aggressor together and then use warcry seperately while those are down to keep an attack buff up for as much time as possible.... but this isn't about Wars being stupid.

Point is, War stacking JAs for big numbers right off the bat isn't even worth sweating over. It's his problem and it's his exp when he dies. I'm a jerk, but I'd make a point to tell him something like "impressed by your uber dmg yet?"

[Slip]

Re: Too much Vit and not enough hate!

One other trick that can help, if you're not taking enough damage -> pop Berserk if it's up. Not only will that scale up your dmg, it dials back your defense and let's you heal a bit more.

[Djonma]

Re: Too much Vit and not enough hate!

That's a good idea too, Slip.

I can see I wasn't being flexible enough in tanking, I've had it drummed into me that VIT and DEF are the only way to go for a taru. You can't do anything that ruins that, which worked fine up until now.

Now I need to change tactics.