Paladins a doomed job?

[Maju]

I've noticed that as I'm getting closer to the 70s, getting parties has become increasingly difficult. I have not gained any invites in many days and I've built all of my parties myself and they have always been great successes except for one party (always over 7k/h, sometimes even up to over 12k/h), yet people just don't want to invite a PLD. Some RDMs even refuse to party with PLDs.

Today I had my most depressing experience with one of those arrogant RDMs. I built a L66-68 PT and thought we'd try marids and if it doesn't work out we'll go for trolls and erucas. Well, the PT didn't seem to quite grasp the concept of chigoe mobs and the MNKs WS wasn't strong enough to take em out in one go, so we end up wiping when the marid is at about 10-15%. The RDM then immediately leaves my PT and tells me he's sick of PLDs and how we're an absolutely useless job for anything but HNMs. Before I can reply he black lists me. In case anyone wants to know, the RDM in question was Justanotherface.

The reputation of the PLD seems to become worse and worse even though we just had great buffs a while ago. Of course we won't be able to compete with NINs until we're permanently invulnerable and can dish out 3x our current damage, but when all the current L75 PLDs quit and no more can be easily leveled thanks to everyone drooling over NINs, how do these RDMs and their friends expect to get their HNMs tanked?

/rant off

[Icemage]

Re: Paladins a doomed job?

Eh... I have no issues with Paladins and I'm roughly the same level range and playing RDM. Tell Justanotherface to stick it where the sun doesn't shine, because he just has no clue what he's talking about.

Paladins require a different setup than Ninjas - I actually prefer Paladins over Ninjas. The overall XP might be slightly lower, but the safety factor is higher too, which nets out to the same thing in my book.


Icemage

[Dahlgren]

Re: Paladins a doomed job?

The best thing to do is not bother with waiting to party.
1- make your own
2- go on as many coffer key hunts as you can.
3- Skill up on XP mobs
4- Do the escort Missions, alot and often.
5- Look inside your LS for friends to level with
6- Don't give up hope.

Parties for Pld slow down alot around 70+ but I soon learned that there were better things to do then sit around waiting. I would seek up and go farm mobs that would drop farm items as well as XP, used the ring and watched the XP slowly rise. Also taught me how to solo better and space out my MP consumption so that I could solo DCs. Eventually I was noticed and started gettign parties, then my LS made it a point to get me to 75, soon after I was wearing the Adaman gear and sporting that fancy 75 next to Pld.

and never forget, those people that you help get to Sky will remember you once they start XPing there.

[Macht]

Re: Paladins a doomed job?

Well if you ever look at the Census do realize that the higher level you go the smaller a selection there is. Doesn't really mean popularity of a job has dropped. As for the RDM he is extreemly ignorant to not realize that NINs are not godly, especially with many of the changes to Utsusemi I've seen tons of experienced NINs get shredded like paper against many mobs were such a situation never occurs with a PLD.

NINs and PLDs have different strengths for tanks, If you were defeated because of multiple opponents that doesn't mean a NIN would of survived that situation one bit. Likely they are at higher risk because that is an extra opponent taking out the Utsusemi even faster.

NINs power as a tank comes from Utsusemi but conditions need it to be a slow attacking mob MNK type mobs or having 2-3 that are attacking him just reduces his likelyness of survival far lower then PLDs. It's just a combination of fewer people at the higher levels, ignorance due to lack of knowledge and unwillingness to learn, and reputation previous players of the job has made out of it.

[Maju]

Re: Paladins a doomed job?

NINs power as a tank comes from Utsusemi but conditions need it to be a slow attacking mob MNK type mobs or having 2-3 that are attacking him just reduces his likelyness of survival far lower then PLDs. It's just a combination of fewer people at the higher levels, ignorance due to lack of knowledge and unwillingness to learn, and reputation previous players of the job has made out of it.

Yea but why would a NIN ever have to tank monk types or multiple mobs at the same time in an XP party? You can just camp non-MNK mobs and if you get an add, which souldn't happen in the first place, you can usually just sleep it. Against a single mob with a somewhat normal attack speed a NIN is almost invulnerable.

Long time ago on my THF I had a party in Bibiki Bay and we were killing dhalmels. As far as I can remember the NIN tank took damage twice for a grand total of around 250 during the entire party which lasted for hours. We could have gone without a single MP job and still wouldn't have had to rest. That's how good NIN is.

The best thing to do is not bother with waiting to party.
1- make your own
2- go on as many coffer key hunts as you can.
3- Skill up on XP mobs
4- Do the escort Missions, alot and often.
5- Look inside your LS for friends to level with
6- Don't give up hope.

Parties for Pld slow down alot around 70+ but I soon learned that there were better things to do then sit around waiting. I would seek up and go farm mobs that would drop farm items as well as XP, used the ring and watched the XP slowly rise. Also taught me how to solo better and space out my MP consumption so that I could solo DCs. Eventually I was noticed and started gettign parties, then my LS made it a point to get me to 75, soon after I was wearing the Adaman gear and sporting that fancy 75 next to Pld.

and never forget, those people that you help get to Sky will remember you once they start XPing there.

1. Yes, I always try to make my own. Unfortunately finding a RDM for my party is always a problem.
2-6. Are you seriously suggesting I level to 75 solo and on skill up mobs with some possible exp scrolls every now and then?

[Slip]

Re: Paladins a doomed job?

I'm static'd for my Pld job, so I've (thankfully) been able to avoid the lfp headaches others run into. One thing I noticed though was how small the population of 50-74 jobs was in the recent Vana'diel census.

Up until about level 37 there's a fair number of people at each level. Later on though the total nearly flatlines until you hit 75 and it shoots up again for all the endgame folks. That left me wondering if the real reason "job x" "doesn't get invites" is simple because there's not enough parties out there to get invited into.

[Mhurron]

Re: Paladins a doomed job?

Yea but why would a NIN ever have to tank monk types

Mandies are soft and squishy. On top of that when you're EXPing in an area where one type is a MNK do you really want to stop EXPing to wait for the non-mnks to pop and hope they do so away from the MNKs so you don't get a link?

multiple mobs at the same time

Linkie Linkie, unfortunately thats not always avoidable.

NIN tank took damage twice for a grand total of around 250 during the entire party

In my experience, this is very rare. NIN is a hard job to get right, and there just aren't that many players that strive to be good at whatever job they play.

Personally, as RDM, BLM, and now as I lvl WHM and what little DRK I've done, I prefer a PLD tank. NIN requires both skill and gil to do well, and a lot of players are not willing to do what it takes to have enough of either. So many NINs go about their jobs only using Utsusemi, with maybe one or two enfeebs thrown in. They've fallen into the belief that NIN is so damn awesome that they don't need to spend gil on their tools.

[Macht]

Re: Paladins a doomed job?

Yeah, for a NIN to take a grand total of like 200 or so damage is very rare. It's only exceptionally good NINs that are capable of that. Even then I've seen them get 1 shotted by a mob doing a Special Attack just at that crucial moment. Something you never see happen to a PLD.

Plaing as RNG/WAR I don't really like NINs I'm forced to stunt my damage for them to not steal hate. With a PLD though I can be more crazy and with exceptionally good PLDs I can go flat out nuts putting the damage a RNG/NIN does to shame and be unable to pull hate from the PLD.

[Herrisa]

Re: Paladins a doomed job?

Sounds like your RDM was a leach. Meaning that he would rather have a ninja tank doing all the work with him just sitting in the back hardly doing anything. Heck, he probably never had to do much enfeebling either except, maybe, Dia or Bio.

The RDM should have been helping the monk handle the chiggoes. Sleep II and Fire III/Thunder III would have handled them. If not, phalanx and stoneskin, and get a few swings in with the hardly-used sword after the spell to finish them off. The chiggoes aren't that hard.

[Maju]

Re: Paladins a doomed job?

Mandies are soft and squishy. On top of that when you're EXPing in an area where one type is a MNK do you really want to stop EXPing to wait for the non-mnks to pop and hope they do so away from the MNKs so you don't get a link?

Mandies are absolutely not soft and squishy. Like all monk types, they have tons and tons of HP, which is why nobody kills mandies after Yhoator. Their attack speed also skyrockets at higher levels.

In my experience, this is very rare. NIN is a hard job to get right, and there just aren't that many players that strive to be good at whatever job they play.

Personally, as RDM, BLM, and now as I lvl WHM and what little DRK I've done, I prefer a PLD tank. NIN requires both skill and gil to do well, and a lot of players are not willing to do what it takes to have enough of either. So many NINs go about their jobs only using Utsusemi, with maybe one or two enfeebs thrown in. They've fallen into the belief that NIN is so damn awesome that they don't need to spend gil on their tools.

This is the exact opposite of what I've experienced. Every single NIN out there seems to be decked out not only for tanking, but for damage dealing as well. Everyone has Ochiudo's Kote, Hauby, Scorpy, Sniper's and all that jazz. Lately I've invited a lot of NINs to DD in my parties and all of them had most of what I listed above and more. They all dealt excellent damage also and I hated it when one would pull hate and the colibri would eat their sushi. I stacked a lot of +enmity including high breath mantle and I would still occasionally lose hate even though I was both voking and flashing as frequently as possible and curing a big portion of damage taken.

[Davitron3000]

Re: Paladins a doomed job?

Paladins a doomed job?

I don't think so. Just because it is harder to get invites 70+ doesn't mean it is doomed.
Actually having a tough time on invites from 70-75 is not so bad. Ask a DD how
not getting invites is from 30-75.

Just stick with it. You will make it. Also, I don't think Dahlgren meant to just level
to 75 in skill ups and with escorts. I think it was kinda a "every little bit helps" kinda
thing. (the things that Dahlgren mentioned are how I keep my buffer up)

Best thing I can think of is to get friends and LS members to help you.

Good luck ^^

[Maju]

Re: Paladins a doomed job?

Actually having a tough time on invites from 70-75 is not so bad. Ask a DD how
not getting invites is from 30-75.

Ugh, don't remind me of my THF days. Now that we have a lot of popular flying exp mobs in ToAU, I bet I would have it easier as THF than I did back then. Anyway, WAR/NIN is really popular as well as MNK/WAR and SAM/WAR and probably RNG/NIN. I bet those jobs have no trouble getting invites. I feel sorry for PUPs and DRKs, though.

[Mhurron]

Re: Paladins a doomed job?

I stacked a lot of +enmity including high breath mantle and I would still occasionally lose hate even though I was both voking and flashing as frequently as possible and curing a big portion of damage taken.

NIN's I've been with would always loose hate. When I'm playing RDM I don't have to do many high hate grabbing spells, but as BLM ...

You must have been really lucky and only EXP'd with the best NIN's you can find, but personally most of the best parties I can remember were with PLD tanks.

[Raydeus]

Re: Paladins a doomed job?

Well, that RDM had the same issues a WHM that only wants to party with NINs would have, don't let it bother you, they just want to watch TV while the NIN doesn't take any damage.

RDM and PLD work better together, NIN and BRD do as well, RDM+BRD work better than WHM but you don't see people saying "I wont party with a WHM!" (at least not much).

Except for BRDs I don't think there isn't a job that doesnt suffer getting invites at lvl 65+, RDM has a hard time at lvl 72+ because sometimes there are so many RDM wanting to merit. Many times I've seen 4 or more RDM looking at the same time lvl 72+, but that also happens with most jobs.

Granted PLD still needs some adjustments so it really become a competitive tank but that doesn't mean NIN is better either.

NIN's strength resides in the fact that they don't take damage, PLD's strength is in the amount of hate they can generate.

NIN playstyle is for DoT parties because of their lack of hate, although a NIN can get a good amount of hate on them if they are willing to burn that much gil while doing it.

PLD playstyle is more on spike damage parties, where it's easier for BLM and melee to use powerful WS and spells to dispose of the mob before the PLD takes too much damage.

There's room for both styles of tanking, the problem is many people see parties as

Tank (/DD sometimes), DD, DD, DD, "Main healer" "Refresher"

And don't consider the kind of setups that work depending on the tank or the kind of mobs they intend to fight. And sometimes those parties just crash and burn because of it.

[Dragonly]

Re: Paladins a doomed job?

Sounds like your RDM was a leach. Meaning that he would rather have a ninja tank doing all the work with him just sitting in the back hardly doing anything. Heck, he probably never had to do much enfeebling either except, maybe, Dia or Bio..

I would have to agree, i've been seeing whm like that to getting away with a ninja tank.

I certinal hope it's not a dying job i just hit 37 last night(yay for flash) and i really like pld thus far