Paladins a doomed job?

[Armando]

Re: Paladins a doomed job?

The LAST thing I want is to have to turn Paladin into another Ninja in order to be able to compete with Ninja. May as well just be a Ninja. Redundant? You bet.

[Murphie]

Re: Paladins a doomed job?

The LAST thing I want is to have to turn Paladin into another Ninja in order to be able to compete with Ninja. May as well just be a Ninja. Redundant? You bet.

That's what I was about to say. Giving PLD provoke would just make it so that every PLD had to be /NIN in order to get parties, which defeats the purpose of buffing PLD in the first place.

[Mog]

Re: Paladins a doomed job?

Oh god, this thread is evolving into a NIN vs PLD thread.

I saw this coming.

[Murphie]

Re: Paladins a doomed job?

Oh god, this thread is evolving into a NIN vs PLD thread.

I saw this coming.

Pretty much any thread with PLD or NIN in the title is bound to eventually.

[Kenki]

Re: Paladins a doomed job?

Idk, but after lv74 or so PT don't even 'need' a ninja tank! >_< the concept of tanking just lost after I got into a burn PT and everyone now just go "burn PT plz!". I have PT with several nins and the tanking nin was never a good choice. They simply couldn't tank. I think this is the major reason why some jobs just get very low invites after lv70+ or so.

I found that that major trend after lv70 is "melee burn PT or mana burn PT": everyone nin just sub, even the brd is subbing nin - except the healer/refresher. No one was tanking, WS was flying here and there but no SC or MB. Whomever has the most hate will be tanking like a ninja until someone else rips hate off him. Nin and Pld are still the 1st one to grab attention with flash/provoke but none of them can hold it after a few seconds.

These burn PTs are so common that I have only been to ONE traditional setup PT for the last 20 PTs (i.e. with a static tank, a SC, a MB and a real healer). I'm starting to feel that people are losing the touch of traditional PT and try to force everything with 'burn PT' - I have yet to find a good PT spot for traditional PT with competitive exp/hr >_<'

The jobs that seem to lost in burn PTs are:
Pld - due to the fact that PT no longer needs a static tank and pld can't do a lot of damage. To put int simple, a Pld is a tank, when you need a tank you call for a Pld. If a PT no longer needs a tank then they no longer needs a Pld. Most burn PT don't need a tank longer than a few sec at start of every battle.

Evasive ninja - this job can no longer hold hate, most nins turn to DD nin. The old method of evasive ninja at lower levels no long works in these new burn PTs. IF the ninja can't do at least comparable damage to other DD then they just simply can't keep hate. If they can't keep hate then they will have to turn into DD nin which ironically works well in holding hate.

Blm - the lost of MB and the constant roaming combine with the lack of a static tank greatly weaken the power of Blm. Most blm just cast 1 or 2 spells near the end of the battle. Since most battles only last about 30sec, most blm has to sit out of every other battle to regenerate MP of they over cast on the other battles.

Drk - the major selling point of Drk is extremely powerful WS; however the over spamming WS and very quick kills (only 2~3 swings of a scythe) left this job TP-less every odd number of fight. Some Drk sub ninja and used sword/axe style instead but I have yet to see a drk/nin replacing the overwhelming power of war/nin.

Thf - it appears to me that thf is very strong but somewhat lacking compare to the other power house DD. The point of thf is to pin hate on the tank quickly and balance out the distribution of hate around the PT. However, with very quick fights and the losing concept of tanks - thf is being pushed to the limit. I have only seen 1 Thf out of 6 be able to pull SA + WS consistently. The monster kept turning around to whomever has the most hate and never face a direction longer than a few sec.

[ValisOfValefor]

Re: Paladins a doomed job?

I believe and hope they wont give paladin a provoke like ability, and that de we do get that ability, most people would start subbing subbing ninja


And that is the day I quit this game.

[Kailea]

Re: Paladins a doomed job?

I agree.... also if a tank is not needed at that level, there are ways to make PLD a DD job, so change PLD over from tank to DD and let the damage fly

[Murda]

Re: Paladins a doomed job?

I agree.... also if a tank is not needed at that level, there are ways to make PLD a DD job, so change PLD over from tank to DD and let the damage fly

if PT is looking for another DD the last thing they are gonna look for is a DD PLD...might as well get a WAR/WHM or something...

and to answer the topic question...is Paladin doomed...hell no...as long as im around it isnt...PLD will alwayz be my main...atleast until the game is ended :D

[Tirocupidus]

Re: Paladins a doomed job?

My last 2 parties had a NIN/WAR tank and WAR/NIN tank, both level 34. Each party, I had to go without TA because they wanted to be able to lose aggro to recast ustusemi. And each party, I was constantly getting aggro, so I couldn't use Berserk either. I hate ninjas. Give me a paladin any day.

Note: Even playing WHM, I prefer PLD to NIN.

[lufia22]

Re: Paladins a doomed job?

My last 2 parties had a NIN/WAR tank and WAR/NIN tank, both level 34. Each party, I had to go without TA because they wanted to be able to lose aggro to recast ustusemi. And each party, I was constantly getting aggro, so I couldn't use Berserk either. I hate ninjas. Give me a paladin any day.

Note: Even playing WHM, I prefer PLD to NIN.

No offense, but you can't really comment on ninja tanks until you've partied with a level 37 ninja. In other words, you say you hate ninja because you're partying with them before their prime.

[dirtyclown]

Re: Paladins a doomed job?

Because at level 37 they're just so much better. Right? RIGHT?!

[Aksannyi]

Re: Paladins a doomed job?

To be honest, as a RDM, I kind of prefer having two WARs trade hate than having a Ninja tank. Their hate holding skills are kind of iffy. As a WHM, I don't mind Ninja's too much, except for the fact that it seems I spend a ridiculous amount of MP casting Erase on them. So in the MP respect I suppose it kind of evens out, but I want to be able to cast a higher level Cure spell if things go wrong and not have to worry about the mob messing me up because of it.

These days, when I'm LFP, regardless what job I'm leveling, I'm kind of happy to find any tank at all. Seems tanks of all types are in short supply these days, and some parties (I'm not kidding) have even resorted to using a MNK/WAR to tank, which works with an incredible amount of downtime and not exactly very experience-efficient. So I wouldn't worry too much about PLD going down the drains, there are still a lot of people who absolutely love Paladins, myself included, and I honestly don't mind spending an extra 40 MP to Refresh you guys, either, because your hate holding abilities are unmatched.

[Quanta]

Re: Paladins a doomed job?

No offense, but you can't really comment on ninja tanks until you've partied with a level 37 ninja. In other words, you say you hate ninja because you're partying with them before their prime.

Sure, NIN has great damage mitigation, but what about holding hate? Most NINs are a Provoke/Warcry, a weaponskill, or a Cure II away from losing it all. Are you saying you'd rather see a squishie mage take an occassional near-fatal hit just so that you don't have to waste MP on healing the tank? What happens if both Utsusemi spells are on cooldown? Have a WAR off-tank while you wait? But wait a minute, he became expendable when you hit 37, so I guess it's the DRK's job now, and when has a DRK ever been able to tank? He's probably half-dead in the 4 seconds it takes for the NIN to recast Ichi (which was likely going to be available first), not to mention it'll take an extra few seconds afterwards to get a voke off and save the DRK before he dies. Meanwhile, the WHM is casting Cure III on the DRK in an attempt to save his life, but your NIN voked a couple of seconds before it went off, so now the WHM's Stoneskin is gone in a couple of hits while he waits 20 seconds for your voke to cooldown.

Suddenly, Paladin is sounding like a decent alternative, isn't it?

[dirtyclown]

Re: Paladins a doomed job?

You make it sound like NIN can't tank at all. They can, and quite easily at that. Using the elemental wheel they can hold hate down rather solid. I'm not exactly sure what level they start doing that at though. There's alot of extra things a tank can do to grab hate, regardless of their job. Some are better than others, but it's possible to make it work. Although in my experience with a NIN tank everyone else in the PT had to hold back a bit and time everything with provokes etc. A Paladin doesn't have that problem though. We can hold hate through anything provided we're on top of our game. Anyone who says otherwise PTs with crappy tanks. >.>

[ValisOfValefor]

Re: Paladins a doomed job?

Using the elemental wheel

Elemental wheel? what elemental wheel?(Hints at sarcasm)

I think the last ninja I had that span the elemental wheel was in the early 20s, the rest of em have gotten off easy utsusemi ichi, and provoking when needed