PLD Hate Control

[Keon]

I am currently at level 37 and am curious to know of other pld methods of keeping hate. Right now I have the whm wait until I cast two Cure III to get a good base. I follow with another voke and wait 15 sec to use flash. Then it is repeat with Cure/Flash until the mob is defeated. I have very little trouble keeping the attention of the mob and have yet to experience any slow down due to rest for mp. Keep in mind that I am a Taru and have been known to have a little mp at my disposal. This helps to support my system. Let us here of other methods of hate control from other races as well as other Tarus. I would love to try a few new techniques and compare the results.

[Tsikuro]

Re: PLD Hate Control

I've always been complimented on being a good tank doing this:
At the start of the fight, Provoke + Flash. Keep Provoke+Flash'ing as soon as they're up.
Whenever your health drops, cure yourself with your highest cure spell. The earlier you do this, the more hate you'll get.

[Murphie]

Re: PLD Hate Control

I think I always did a system like:

Voke
Flash
Cure (whatever)
Cure (whatever)
Voke
Shield Bash (unless it's something with a JA or spell that I might want to interrupt)
Cure (whatever)
Flash

Or something. I never had any trouble.

Edit: I'd suggest curing yourself with the most reasonable cure spell per HP needed. Starting off with a Cure III isn't going to do you much good if you've only lost 50 HP.

[ValisOfValefor]

Re: PLD Hate Control

Well, at that level, flash becomes a savior, especially with no thf.

But basically it remains the same, voke, flash, wait untill flash wears, cure, and so on.

Alot of the time sentinel is just for hate grabbing for me, same with shield bash.


Since you have alot more mp than my character, i can specualte you can cure yourself alot more during the battles.

(now at level 50) i only have 161 mp. So I cant really over cure myself.

About the only thing i can really think of that will cause any problems for hate in the future for you is raging fists. Its so powerful it can either to 400+ (with one pimped out monk in one of my parties) Or about 3.

Of course it usually stays towards the 250ish-300ish range for the monks i partied with.

Other than that, I cant really help you. It sounds like your doing a good job

[Silenus]

Re: PLD Hate Control

Man, when I play PLD, I like to set a high hate threshhold right from the git-go.

Flash incoming mob. Voke incoming mob. Cure puller if possible. Cure me for big spike cures. Heck, bust out a Sentinel or Shield Bash right at the start.

I like it when the thf SATA's off somebody else and the mob doesn't blink.

Don't neglect your damage dealing, either--hitting for 0 is >.<

[Slip]

Re: PLD Hate Control

I've found that no one formula works for me on hate management. In general I try for the standard Voke + Flash + Cure 3 or JA in the first 30 seconds, followed by more Cures, Flash and Vokes as the fight goes on.

Some fights though I just won't take enough damage in the first 30 secs to make a Cure 3 worth it. Other times I'll take enough that even the hate from a Cure 4 seems a little shakey (admittedly that's rare though). Overall the only "hate trick" that I have is that I don't cast Flash and Provoke too soon after each other. Both are big hate spikes and I like to space them out a little so that I have a uniformly high hate all the time rather than a super high amount that dwindles down to nothing before the next voke is up. That said I do think getting a nice big chunk of hate in the first 30 seconds can make the rest of the fight a lot easier, so getting Voke, Flash and at least one other meaty hate tool off in the first 30s is a definite must for me.

Beyond holding hate for a single fight though my obession has become preserving hate tools so that I can hold it smoothly through a full chain 5 without resting. My static puller is a touch psychotic you see and, lately, has been getting mobs back into camp before the recast timer is up on Provoke from the last one. Makes hate holding a bit challenging but it's worth it for the quick Chain 5s.

The crucial thing for any Pld though, at any level or partying speed, is how well the party works with you to hold hate. Ideally we set the bar nice and high so everyone else can act to a good fraction of their potential. In practice though someone who's really determined to steal hate from you will either a.) get it eventually (and possibly fatally) or b.) run you out of hate tools way faster than you otherwise would.

For my party I figure I have hate because the 2 Ancient Magic bursting Black Mages and the Dark Knight are allowing me to have it. Any time they feel like commiting suicide they're more than capable of it though (well, at least the 2nd time they try - first time there's always Invincible after all).

[Gilge]

Re: PLD Hate Control

voke
shield bash (every other fight)
sentinel (every other fight)
defender (whenever it's ready)
flash (after shield bash + sentinel only if there's a refresher, otherwise i stagger these 2)
cure whatever hp i lost
voke again (usually by this time its up again)
cure II whenever i need it (i like to rely on the healer to keep me alive most of the time, i almost never cast III)

[PTT]

Re: PLD Hate Control

This is what I do:

1) Provoke Target

2) Flash Target immediately

3) Use 2 job abilities (Sentinel + Rampart, Shield Bash + Warcry)

3A) If one or more abilities are still down, or if the pulls are too fast for this pattern, I substitute Defender and Berserk when necessary (Cancelling Berserk if need be afterwards)

4) I have time for about 2 cures, usually IIIs or IVs at this level.

4A) Sometimes the WHM cures me to full before I can cast, and sometimes Summoners cast Earthen Ward or Aerial Armor, and it throws off my Cure Hate cycle. The goal however is not only to cure myself, but anyone who's on the hate list. Cure the puller if the WHM doesn't do so immediately, Cure the Dark Knight who's using Soul Eater, Cure anyone after an AOE. Paladins need to be cure snipers to maintain their hate! :D

4B) No offense to Summoners or White Mages, by the way. I know I'm guilty of pver-curing my static PLD's HP when I play WHM in particular. It's hard to see your tank's HP dropping, and not cast cure, even though he needs to cast cure as well! I appreciate the thought, WHMs and SUMs ^^

5) Provoke number 2

6) If hasted, Flash number 2. If not, cure self until flash is up, then use.

7) Cure snipe as necessary

8) Provoke/Flash as time allows

9) Don't be afraid to run in front of your party members who regularly steal hate and use Cover! Instruct your party members who regularly steal hate to run behind you if possible before doing whatever it is that steals hate. It'll save a lot of headaches in parties ^^

10) Optional/Emergency: If you're in a bind, and cover's down, don't be afraid of using Invincible to grab hate back from an overzealous caster, or a powerful melee.

Especially in the upper levels, when you get into parties with say, Monks wearing Kirin's Osode, and all of that super expensive gear, it gets harder and harder to hold hate. It's all about the TP and damage output. Tanks are given less regard than in the low to mid levels. If you're a perpetually poor individual like myself, the difference can grow.

My only advice is to stock up on as much +enmity as you please, gear up as much as gil allows, and do the best you can do to take the hate, that is to say, by any means necessary.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: PLD Hate Control

(now at level 50) i only have 161 mp. So I cant really over cure myself.

Holy Shamoly. I had 162 in Qufim. . .

Anyway, PTT had a good HL tactic, but being 37 (and retired, rofl!), it's VERY easy to tank as PLD. Well, I guess that's relative, because I can afford to do Cure II ever 3-4 hits and flash whenever it's up, because my MP pool is pro like that.

So of course, Voke, then I flash, then I do either Shield Bash or Sentinel. I alternate them depending on the fights (slow pulls, and long fights, obviously >.>). Holy Circle may not do much, but if SB and SNT are down, I'll pair HC with Berserk and take a couple Berserked hits so I can cure more HP back.

Cure III, to me, is NEVER worth the MP cost. 46MP for a cap of 140ish HP when 2 Cure IIs can give me 180-190 for 48 MP. Hell, if you want, you can do menial Cure 1 Spam and build up gradual hate.

Cover is so awsome, and the 10 second duration is long enough to A) take a few hits, B) get hate by using it, and C) Have more to cure for.

I can use Cover just about every fight, and Flash is just plain sexy.

I'm a Tarudin, so things are actually much easier (I will argue that Tarus can tank better than all the races), because my HP/MP ratio is like 4/2.5. 25MP For flash may hurt in the long run, but with the introduction of Auto Refresh, don't be afraid to use it. At the very least, do it twice in a match.

[wardog]

Re: PLD Hate Control

for my part :
Flash(because of recast time)
voke
Cure II
Cure II
voke...etc...
sometimes banish too, when i have extra MP's

when i lose hate: Sentinel or shield bash....(i keep them all the time for this moment...)

u can get some good items to keep hate like high breath mantle(amazing OO)(lvl36 http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/8049)
and at lvl 43 you can set a mermaid's ring(lvl 43 http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/2842) in your voke macro...this is how it works for me now...

[Hilde]

Re: PLD Hate Control

LoL

Not really going to say much new.

I open up with flash before I provoke. then toss either a shield bash or sentinel, I alternate usage between these two so I always have one or the other in a battle. Then typically I cure either a puller or hit myself with a Cure II or higher.

I have tossed out a banish II occasionally but it has a longer casting time then most mobs let me have.

Oh and I also have a spiffy cape which has +1 Enemity(sp?) which as I understand works nicely if I am a warrior or subbing warrior.

But usually by the time I hit the cure...the mob only leaves me if a DRK or BLU hits it obcenely hard, and then only momentarily since I hit Provoke every 30 sec.

As I said nothing new.

[Davitron3000]

Re: PLD Hate Control

I've found that no one formula works for me on hate management.

I find the same thing to be true. My "routine" basics are the same, but from party
to party I would always try to adjust what I was doing to fit that group. Some parties
I could relax and do my normal thing, some parties I would have to use everything I
could to hold the mob.

I see a lot of people voke first, but I always tried to Flash the incoming mob. In my
opinion, doing this will help out your puller, and will go ahead and get that Flash
recast timer ticking. (I think Flash has a bigger range than Provoke so you can use
it earlier... but I do not know this as fact)

[qaitakalnin]

Re: PLD Hate Control

Well being elvaan i have never used flash twice in one fight. Against nm's or bcnms i will likely do that, but for xp mobs i have never. Now i do use a high breath mantel as well as a red sash macro'd in for the beging hate spikes and the only time the mob does look at me is when the war in my static does obscene dmg to the mob with strumwind before i voke a second time (which if i have cover available i just cover him and then i get hate back with second voke). I use voke, flash, shieldbash (or sentinal whichever is ready), cure X, voke, and then just cure as needed and voke when timer is ready and i dont have any problems with hate, and i definitly attribute that to the high breath mantel, cause before i started using the mantel i did have a heck of a time, but now, smooth sailing.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: PLD Hate Control

+5 Enmity right? If I was going to do career PLD, the Stat boost and Enmity boost from that back piece are well worth it. Keep in mind that PLD have insane tanking tools at 40. >.>

Something like the HBM and the Enmity Earrings are crazy.

Oh, and +Enmity adds hate to every action you do, so while it gives you a bigger spike on voking, if you can leave it on for more accumulated hate other than taking it off, it seems to be more effective.

[TenchiHawkwing]

Re: PLD Hate Control

Well being elvaan i have never used flash twice in one fight. Against nm's or bcnms i will likely do that, but for xp mobs i have never. Now i do use a high breath mantel as well as a red sash macro'd in for the beging hate spikes and the only time the mob does look at me is when the war in my static does obscene dmg to the mob with strumwind before i voke a second time (which if i have cover available i just cover him and then i get hate back with second voke). I use voke, flash, shieldbash (or sentinal whichever is ready), cure X, voke, and then just cure as needed and voke when timer is ready and i dont have any problems with hate, and i definitly attribute that to the high breath mantel, cause before i started using the mantel i did have a heck of a time, but now, smooth sailing.

Why wouldn't you flash more than once? It actually saves you MP while creating a good ammount of enmity... if the enemies miss you don't have to cure for that ammout of HP dmg take, also neither would your healer(making them not get more enmity from curing you).