Hauby vs Byrnie

[Armando]

Re: Hauby vs Byrnie

Don't you mean Jaridah Peti?

[Lmnop]

Re: Hauby vs Byrnie

Sipawi's the dress, and perhaps he means it. It does have +5 Str and Agi, and +some amount of HP. I haven't looked at the defense of it though. I don't think i've posted about this yet and this seems as good a place as any to talk about it:

I tested Sipawi Jawshan. What I did was picked mobs semi-randomly throughout Saur[Tab Key]. I counted how many swings it took to kill them (with a level 20ish Spear +1, at that). I also kept track of how many of those swings were critical. So i'd get results like 1/16 or 2/25 and whatnot. I did a few fights with War AF body (control) and a few with Sipawi. I made sure that I fought at least 1 cockatrice, at least one skink, and some random gobs for each test. I avoided THF gobs though since I didn't feel like thinking about their higher AGI vs other gobs.

All told, this isn't a very big test size; I added up all the swings from the 2 tests and added up all the crits and used that as a basis for finding a %. Came out to 78 swings with Sipawi and 77 without. I forget the number of crits but when I crunched the percentage, it came to Normal: 6.4~% crit rate. Sipawi and it's "enhances rate of critical hits" attribute: 15.6% crit rate.

That's right, +10% crit rate. People have assumed for years that there's that whole DEX<=>AGI thing for crit hits, so mayhaps this body armor gives you some amount of psuedo-DEX used in the calculations for critical hits. If this were the case, you'd definately see much smaller results on exp mobs.

The fact that my test showed my normal crit rate to be around 5% makes me think, though. It makes me think that DEX has no effect whatsoever on Crit rate. Afterall, 5% is the baseline used by sooo many games and game systems. And yet I was fighting mobs that are 20-30 levels under me and still getting that same 5%ish.

...Back to Paladin....
If this body armor really gives a nice chunk of crit rate, then that's pretty darn nice. In the same way that Double Attack works to provide PLDs with more hate, this would provide around a 10-15% crit rate for more hate. Not to mention that when a hit goes critical, for that one attack you just got a very large amount of +attack.

Did I contribute to this thread at all...?

Byrnie sexier than Haub. And if you're bent on eating sushi, Byrnie better.

[Armando]

Re: Hauby vs Byrnie

A 10% improvement? Ooh, that makes me want it so bad! Would you mind sending me your test data over a Private Message? I love having this kinda stuff for reference. Plus, the way it's labelled makes me wonder if there's something more to it (or maybe S-E just doesn't want to let us know how awesome the piece is ;P) I also wonder if the HQ has more +Crit rate?

As for DEX and AGI, I'm convinced that the relationship exists, but is is so small it can't matter. I've heard of tests done in the Allakhazam THF forums indicating that you need over 10 DEX to see a 1% improvement in Critical Hits.

[crowly]

Re: Hauby vs Byrnie

Evasion and evasion skill are different things. Although the -evasion would hurt, it wouldn't put them at mage evasion levels. The -AGI might hurt for shield/parry though. I forgot about the -AGI on the haubergeon.

They buy them because they're too cheap for Buckler, Parry, Hospitaler, Titanis, Hades+1, or Mercenary earrings.

[samarium]

Re: Hauby vs Byrnie

They buy them because they're too cheap for Buckler, Parry, Hospitaler, Titanis, Hades+1, or Mercenary earrings.

Cheap =/= Poor

You can be an excellent tank without having all the uberest +1/NM drop gear, and getting together enough money to afford all of the above would take weeks or months, particularly if this is your first job at or above this level.

Let's not forget the progression of importance: Skill > Gear > Race.

-sam

[Maju]

Re: Hauby vs Byrnie

I bought a hauby and I'm loving it.

I even beat all the other melees in my previous party, though I have to admit it was not a very good one. Anyway, sushi + shield mastery = lots of TP => lots of Vorpal Blade for 150-500 damage. I was the only L60 in the party for a good while and I'm sure that also had something to do with it.

[Khevn]

Re: Hauby vs Byrnie

I don't know why people complain about the -5 agi on hauby, the Adaman full sets I see people wearing have about this much or more. If your shield skield skill is capped an you have a few merits in it (280 shield skill here) and equip your AF1 feet since there aren't very many useful items for this slot as a pld readily available, you have 290 shield. My shield goes off on exp mobs more often than I take a full hit while equipping koenig. So I dropped my koenig and got a Tatami Shield. I can't remeber the last time Eva Actually went off enough times where I would actually miss it. Especially since it caps a 225. I think might eva 1 attack maybe once every two mobs as a Standard tank in all tanking gear. Shield skill with it's TP gain and proc rate, can be indespensible in a melee party for Paladins.

I DD /war so my set up is -
Main- Company Sword
Sub- Tatami Shield
Head - Optical
Body - Haubergeon
Legs - Ryl.Kgt. Breeches
Feet - AF1
Hands - Tarasque Mitts
Neck - Ryl.Grd. Collar
Rings - 2 X Ruby
Earring- Assualt Earring, and a mercenary earring for now till i get something better
Waist- War Wolf Belt
Ranged- Rosenbogen
Back - Amemit +1
Food - Sole Sushi
Last night I joined a DD burn party and my melee dmg with Vorpal was consistantly 500+ rarely lower, usually higher at 630+ and when I Berserk/warcryed I was hitting from 690-800+. My average hit was 75-113 and criting at 170+. I have +4 enmity Merits and +3 from warwolf which made me easily able to keep the mob on me with provoke flash and my damage alone. Which with my high shield skill allowed me to gain TP even quicker so i Could WS sometimes 2 times a mob. My fellow Party members were 2X warriors I didn't check them but they were both /nin and they had walhura Turbans and Hauberks. so I'm sure the rest of the gear was very above par, since they were hitting for 110-130 dmg on average per strike. A Corsair With mixed pieces of Rng ACC gear and AF a RDM and a WHM. both were 74 and going for 75. We fought in the Mire and we were easily able to chain up to 22+ when monsters were available. So from my experience with a well geared group. A DD Pld can be an awsome addition to a melee TP burn without a nin sub. We made 34k out of the 4hrs I played. Reasons for the low 8.5k average was that, the last hour, 3 parties came in and we were struggling to get enough monsters to get chain 5. After about an hour we got too annoyed with this and disbanded.

My first WS was an impressive 730, awsome for a PLD, and it felt good to get checked by warriors haha. So basically from what I find, Shield Skill can seriously negate distinct amounts of DMG and help you gain incredible amounts of TP without Joyuese, nin sub, and other band aids. The trick is not to leave the path of tanking but to tweak it to the needs of the party. So basically, I still tanked in the classic PLD way and did decent dmg!

[Tsingtao]

Re: Hauby vs Byrnie

I wouldn't describe a NIN sub or a joyeuse as a band aid, its a they are very usedful tools. With Joyeuse offhanded I'll gain TP at about the same pace as most DDs bar SAM. Stick on some haste ger and you'll start to gain faster than a decent DD. WSes nail home for 500 - 600 with routine 3 attacks per round. If you then use ACC ring macroed out for STR rings on WSes you start to see even more though I generally stick to STR and ATT.

I must admit I probably break all the rules in that I use joyeuse when main tanking I find the added damage and TP gain to much to turn away.

[csBahamut]

Re: Hauby vs Byrnie

If you have accuracy problems, use Hauby. If not, use Byrnie. For WS, you're going to want to use a Hecatomb Harness anyways.

I personally use Byrnie now, since I use +attack gear with sushi. Once I get more Homam pieces, I'll go with +haste/acc gear (like a Hauby) and meat.

[Karinya]

Re: Hauby vs Byrnie

I think for now I'm going to skip the debate and camp Ose. I can probably solo him easier than I can raise 3 million gil and the differences in performance between either of these and an AJ look pretty small.

As an added bonus, I can also wear the AJ on my RDM.