/ja Cover <t>

[JeanRC]

Re: /ja Cover &lt;t&gt;

Galka in love

this is sick =.= they look so gay !

[Murphie]

Re: /ja Cover &lt;t&gt;

It's a videogame character. I don't find it sick or "gay" or whatever you kids are calling it these days. It's amusing though.

So anyway, Paladin, eh? Weren't we talking about Paladin?

[Aksannyi]

Re: /ja Cover &lt;t&gt;

Exactly what did that picture have to do with the topic at hand? Am I missing something? O.o

[Murphie]

Re: /ja Cover &lt;t&gt;

Exactly what did that picture have to do with the topic at hand? Am I missing something? O.o

There was a minor aside regarding Galka lovin'.

[Aksannyi]

Re: /ja Cover &lt;t&gt;

Oh ... wow, that totally went over my head. Perhaps I should get my behind in bed.

[Aeolus]

Re: /ja Cover &lt;t&gt;

It's a videogame character. I don't find it sick or "gay" or whatever you kids are calling it these days. It's amusing though.

Thats like saying a picture of a body ripped in half, guts spilling everywhere isnt sick.

[Murphie]

Re: /ja Cover &lt;t&gt;

I think you are overreacting a tad. If a galka wants to wear Opaline gear, who am I to say he can't? Maybe it makes him feel pretty.

Can we please get back to the PLD discussion now? Just a thought.

[Darkarcher]

Re: /ja Cover &lt;t&gt;

The macro should be /ja Cover <stpc> so you can choose which person to cover. Now, some DDs will run to your back instantly after skillchains, some won't. So it's not all that hard to get in position to cover them.

I try to keep the mages not right behind me, but behind and to the left/right. So the Cone Aoe attacks won't hit them, and i also don't have to run through other pt members to cover the suicidal blm.

You'll know if you will need to use cover after the first fight with SC/MB. If your tanking like you should and the blm/DD pulls hate. You might be using it alot. Just tank your best and if it turns get infront of them and hit the macro. I don't have alot of memory of using cover at lower levels when you first get it. But in Sky when the blms are MB for 1500+, you will need to have cover ready.

[Skyline_Evo8]

Re: /ja Cover &lt;t&gt;

Since no one mentioned it earlier, the ideal macro would be:

/ja "{Cover}" <stpc>
/p Don't worry <lastst>, I've got you covered. (or something like that)

The <lastst> tag automatically chooses your last target, so they know to get behind you. Using the F keys to select your target helps a lot too, and don't activate the macro until you're in position, otherwise you're wasting precious Cover time.

Actually, if you really want to get noticed, you could try

/tell <lastst> Get behind me.

for your second line. I'm not sure if <lastst> works with /tell though, but I don't see any reason for it not to.

[FranckKnight]

Re: /ja Cover &lt;t&gt;

I've had a BLM requesting for Cover in my last parties, but I didn't have to use it msot of the time.

The BLM would move behind me, and spammed spells. When that happened, I kept a watch on who was getting hurt, and ready to use Cover if anything. It didn't happen most of the time. Maybe once or twice total. I kept the hate well apparently.

Same in the last party, where the Ranger would often try to get shielded after a big WS. Sometimes I had to, more often I didn't need to since I built up hate enough.

Requesting Cover when you don't need it is just a waste of skill, considering the 5min timer.

But if PLDs don't know how to use it, some other jobs don't know how it works either. In one of my recent parties, someone asked for Cover. As soon as I used it, he MOVED AWAY. Apparently thought that Cover would 'absorb' the hate from the one shielded, so that he'd be free or something. I had to explain him afterwards. We're talking of a level 68 party here.

[Aeni]

Re: /ja Cover &lt;t&gt;

I was just sick.

OMG THAT'S HAWT D:

Anyway... if you people on Hades know Arjuna, well by god, she's the best f*cking Paladin I ever played with ... mithra to boot. Cover? No problem. She actually moves in front of whoever needs it and cover. >.> Then tells mages to move their behinds elsewhere if there's any conical/forward JAs to duck from (Rarely though, since I only mostly partied with her on Bibiki Bay gobbies a long time ago)

But, that wasn't the reason I loved her. I loved her because she only needed to use Cover once or twice at all with me. If anything, we had to somehow find ways to peel mob off her in the event that she's taking too much of a beating (Long story, but even after WHM Bene'd for a total of 5,000 HP recovered the mob didn't turn away from pally) I used to call her the "Mithran Mobpaper."

[Khevn]

Re: /ja Cover &lt;t&gt;

Edit- had to go indpeth on position explanation since all my spaces i made trying to make a text picture got fuggered up...

Cover Should only be used as last resort, Cone effects and AOE spells completely ignore it, it is also very tricky to use and, depending on your party dynamic and the play skill of your party, can actually hurt you even more. Melees and mages should always move to you for it's use, because if your playing your party right, your going to be facing a direction that idealy keeps the other melees and mages out of cones. By no means should any Melee or Mage just go running off for Cover though just because the pulled hate. 90% of the time the mob will be instantly scampering back to the PLD after a Heal or voke before the mob even reached the melee or mage

Ideally your gonna get used to playing in first person mode in hall ways because your camera angle is gonna be fuggered up in 3rd person lol...

OK with a thf and no TP yet, the thf will be on the opposite side of the monster as the mages, The mages will be as far back as possible to the right or left of the mob, the tank will be fighting the mob with it facing him and the Melee will be on the opposite side of the tank. hence, you will have members nearly N S E and W of the mob. Example would be Tank to the South with mob facing him, Melee to the North, Thf or /thf to the West, and mages far East...

Now when SATA and TP are ready the the only person who repositions is the thf or /thf who moves behind the PLD, the Melee then uses Provoke, WS's, and then the THF or /thf SATA's and runs back to his position or moves to get another mob as the mages burst and the mob dies.

Now with one or two melees and rest mages the Party will be, a melee opposite of mages and a melee opposite of tank. Example is Melee West, Melee North, Mages East, PLD south. Make sure the Melee that Closes WS's and usually ends with hate is the one that is in the position opposite of Mages and closest to you, basically the West Position in the example, so he can quickly move behind you if the need arises.

Now with multiple Melees it gets harder to describe without a picture so I will use just cardinal directions to describe a cookie cutter positions. The TANK will be in the South Position, the Healer will be in the East position, and the Melees will be arranged in a fan around mob from W-NE with Closers closest to Tank for easy cover access.

There will be slight variation in the position in hallways with /thf's so they can SATA. Just Make sure your Mages are safe, and your Melees that don't have to be in range of cones aren't.

Of course there are other situations but PLD is most effective in a standard party and these are the most common arrangements

Now in all of these the Tank should never change position unless movement is necessary for the Survival of the other players. Melees should move in behind you for Cover when ever the need arises, which tends to be either very rarely or often depending on the melees DMG output and, if needed, you should tell melees before they move, if Cover isn't up. Mages should never Require cover unless there stupid mages, because no mage I hope is dumb enough to rely on such a tricky manuever, and should just save that smashing blow till it can just finish the mob off in one fell swoop. If the need arises for a Mage to need Cover DO NOT GO TO THE MAGE, you have now put the other mages in the CONE and AOE area, said Mage should get behind you as fast as possible, the goal is to reduce the damage done to the party as a whole. The reason you don't move as A PLD is because then everyone knows exactly where to go to get behind you. So all you have to do is simply adjust your postion very slightly...

LAG is the biggest issue with Cover. When you move, you do not move instantly in some one elses monitor, many people find the concept of lag very difficult to comprehend, sadly. Your movement will be delayed from appearing on some elses screen by .2 - 2 seconds (worse cases happen IE server lag players with slow connections, even route of signal) after you press the keys. If you both move in opposite directions and both try to adjust all you accomplish is missing the line up over and over. Since the "smart" PLD is in the "IDEAL" position to reduce damage all around for members people should move too him to protect the rest of the party!

In closing 99% of the time it's eassier just to Heal said member rather then ruin the Dynamics of the party pattern and and endanger everyone else with Cones and AOE's

Being a 75 PLD almost exclusively for the last 1 1/2 years, I have had about maybe a handful of parties that fully comprehended this and we made chain 7-9 and once a 10 on IT mobs. because they were smart well equipped experience players that understood this concept. If your the tank and your good, you will instantly take command of party positioning if it's hindering the party. Sadly some tanks don't even realize that "there positioning" is actually making an awsome party mediocre.

PLD's and Ninja's will literally make or break a party if they position themselves well. Tank, if you don't realize it, is probably on of the most difficult jobs to pull off correctly and In my honest opinion, should only be pursued by Mature, Experienced, and -{[ INTELLIGENT ]}- players, that are adaptable and flexible to party needs, and are willing to sacrifice themselves for the party should the need arise... PEOPLE WILL LET YOU KNOW IF YOU SUCK and they should. After playing my PLD and getting to 75 with over 60 merit points I've retired from that class and tried doing a DD and found it irritating how bad some PLDs are, so I switched from DD to NIN now lol...

Hopefully your Party understands the concept of Positioning and Lag, and if not, hopefully they open minded enough to learn from you... most of the people aren't and it's made me very sad to see what could be potentially awsome Melees pretty much suck...
/dies - sorry for the super long post that was just something thats been brewing since i've been lvling my RNG... maybe i should just go back to pld and save the heart ache lol...

Edit - sorry my grammar sucks and i'm work and don't have time to proof read