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The Paladin Provoke thread got me thinking about how I classify the strength of the hate tools I have open to me. Usually I just have a general feel for "ok, this'll add a little hate" or "this will really nail the mob on me". For partying though I realized that what that sense really tells me is about how long I can afford to go before I deploy another hate tool to keep the mob on me.
Here's my ranking for the various tools, obviously different situations and mobs can alter aspects of these so these are more overall thoughts on them:
- Invincible - the top of the heap clearly. Usually when I use this I can be guaranteed that the mob will be on me till it's dead. If it's got a lot of life left I may need to use another hate tool after a minute or so has passed. I think I've only lost hate from Invincible to another higher level Paladin who had way more +Emnity than me though.
- Three Hate Tools at Once - The next step down from Invincible would be to toss 3 hate grabbers out in quick succession. Only strong bursts of Ancient Magic when I'm weak on hate usually require this much tool useage. After this I usually plan on the mob staying on me for 30 seconds before needing more hate applied to it.
- Two Hate Tools at once - Stacked job abilities from a Drk or a Rng sometimes call for this, especially if I've been riding on a low hate line to save resources. Generally I'd hope for 25-30 seconds of hate out of that.
- Provoke - The strongest single hate tool in my arsenal at 61 from what I can tell. In most case I'd expect to be able to ride a Provoke for 20 seconds or so, though getting in another hate tool around the 10-15 second mark makes for easier breathing room.
- Cure IV - I debated whether this or Provoke was the top of the line single hate tool. Of the two this one is by far the more solid, but I think in terms of a hate spike Provoke beats it out. That said hate from this will last nice and long...sort of. Usually if I'm beat up enough to use this in a fight it means that the mob it throwing down some heavy damage on me, so I can't afford to coast on any of my hate tools. If we're at the 3rd Provoke though and I'm just barely down enough to be worth casting it then I can usually ride out of the rest of the fight on this alone (the mobs general got 45 seconds or so to live at that point so I may choke up on Provoke so it's ready when the puller brings the next mob in).
- Flash - Just a touch weaker than Provoke. Knock about 2-3 seconds off the Provoke times and everything else is the same.
- Cure III - Not quite the hate grabber than Flash is but again much more solid. I look at this and my damage as the real core of aggro that I'm working with. In terms of "wear off" time, I usually consider it good for 20-25 seconds at the outside, but with 15-20 being reasonably safe.
- Sentinel - An extra handy tool since it will aggro anyone on your hate list and is uninterruptible, I also find it to be a bit stronger than Shield Bash. I tend to hold it in reserve more though since it's more useful on links or if the mob does go scurrying off. In terms of timing I usually give it about 14-16 seconds of holding power by itself.
- Shield Bash - A nice job ability overall but it's always felt a bit easily overwhelmed to me. Too often I've seen a mob turn back when I Shield Bash it, then turn away again if no other tools are used. In general I usually hope for about 12-15 seconds on Shield Bash
- Weapon Skill - I'm kind of a freak as a Pld. For my static the only 2 melees were generally myself and a Dark Knight. Hence it was up to us to skill chain for the 2x Black Mages to nuke on. My SC damage isn't the best obviously but it's a reliable little spike, enough to help take the bite out of Ancient Magic or Blizzaga II bursts. On it's own I'd give the Weapon Skill, Vorpal Blade at this point, maybe 10-12 seconds of holding power.
- Cure II - I still use this from time to time but it's got the hate grabbing power of a 4 year olds insults pretty much. I'd give it maybe 6-10 seconds of holding power.
- Weapon Damage - On it's own I wouldn't trust my sword damage to hold hate long at all, but with the other tools covering for it I've definitely noticed a difference in terms of hate due to accuracy. The Life Belt I strapped on might as well be called an Emnity Belt given how much more consistent it made things. So while this is low on the list of tools its far more useful than it's rating would suggest.
- Holy Circle - Heh, when all else is used up, I'll toss a Holy Circle out (heck I'd toss my armor at the mob if the game would let me!). I'd give it a holding power of 1-2 seconds maybe, though I can't recall ever turning a mob back with it.
One other thing of note of course is when in the fight the abilities are used. In the first 30 seconds I (like most I imagine) race for a nice solid hate level. Usually this means Provoke as soon as the mobs in range...wait....wait..take enough damage for a Cure III....Flash...Cure III....wait...Provoke at 30 seconds. If I'm not taking enough damage for a Cure III quickly enough I'll toss a Shield Bash or a Sentinel in if need be but usually those can be reserved till later.
Past the 30 second mark (aka Provoke 2) I start thinking about WS timing and the next Cure III and Flash useage. I try to watch the damage the rest of the party is doing and how often I'm hitting as a gauge on where my relative hate level is at. Usually 1 or 2 hate tools inbetween Provokes is all I need, though really nasty mobs can up that a bit.
Here's my ranking for the various tools, obviously different situations and mobs can alter aspects of these so these are more overall thoughts on them:
- Invincible - the top of the heap clearly. Usually when I use this I can be guaranteed that the mob will be on me till it's dead. If it's got a lot of life left I may need to use another hate tool after a minute or so has passed. I think I've only lost hate from Invincible to another higher level Paladin who had way more +Emnity than me though.
- Three Hate Tools at Once - The next step down from Invincible would be to toss 3 hate grabbers out in quick succession. Only strong bursts of Ancient Magic when I'm weak on hate usually require this much tool useage. After this I usually plan on the mob staying on me for 30 seconds before needing more hate applied to it.
- Two Hate Tools at once - Stacked job abilities from a Drk or a Rng sometimes call for this, especially if I've been riding on a low hate line to save resources. Generally I'd hope for 25-30 seconds of hate out of that.
- Provoke - The strongest single hate tool in my arsenal at 61 from what I can tell. In most case I'd expect to be able to ride a Provoke for 20 seconds or so, though getting in another hate tool around the 10-15 second mark makes for easier breathing room.
- Cure IV - I debated whether this or Provoke was the top of the line single hate tool. Of the two this one is by far the more solid, but I think in terms of a hate spike Provoke beats it out. That said hate from this will last nice and long...sort of. Usually if I'm beat up enough to use this in a fight it means that the mob it throwing down some heavy damage on me, so I can't afford to coast on any of my hate tools. If we're at the 3rd Provoke though and I'm just barely down enough to be worth casting it then I can usually ride out of the rest of the fight on this alone (the mobs general got 45 seconds or so to live at that point so I may choke up on Provoke so it's ready when the puller brings the next mob in).
- Flash - Just a touch weaker than Provoke. Knock about 2-3 seconds off the Provoke times and everything else is the same.
- Cure III - Not quite the hate grabber than Flash is but again much more solid. I look at this and my damage as the real core of aggro that I'm working with. In terms of "wear off" time, I usually consider it good for 20-25 seconds at the outside, but with 15-20 being reasonably safe.
- Sentinel - An extra handy tool since it will aggro anyone on your hate list and is uninterruptible, I also find it to be a bit stronger than Shield Bash. I tend to hold it in reserve more though since it's more useful on links or if the mob does go scurrying off. In terms of timing I usually give it about 14-16 seconds of holding power by itself.
- Shield Bash - A nice job ability overall but it's always felt a bit easily overwhelmed to me. Too often I've seen a mob turn back when I Shield Bash it, then turn away again if no other tools are used. In general I usually hope for about 12-15 seconds on Shield Bash
- Weapon Skill - I'm kind of a freak as a Pld. For my static the only 2 melees were generally myself and a Dark Knight. Hence it was up to us to skill chain for the 2x Black Mages to nuke on. My SC damage isn't the best obviously but it's a reliable little spike, enough to help take the bite out of Ancient Magic or Blizzaga II bursts. On it's own I'd give the Weapon Skill, Vorpal Blade at this point, maybe 10-12 seconds of holding power.
- Cure II - I still use this from time to time but it's got the hate grabbing power of a 4 year olds insults pretty much. I'd give it maybe 6-10 seconds of holding power.
- Weapon Damage - On it's own I wouldn't trust my sword damage to hold hate long at all, but with the other tools covering for it I've definitely noticed a difference in terms of hate due to accuracy. The Life Belt I strapped on might as well be called an Emnity Belt given how much more consistent it made things. So while this is low on the list of tools its far more useful than it's rating would suggest.
- Holy Circle - Heh, when all else is used up, I'll toss a Holy Circle out (heck I'd toss my armor at the mob if the game would let me!). I'd give it a holding power of 1-2 seconds maybe, though I can't recall ever turning a mob back with it.
One other thing of note of course is when in the fight the abilities are used. In the first 30 seconds I (like most I imagine) race for a nice solid hate level. Usually this means Provoke as soon as the mobs in range...wait....wait..take enough damage for a Cure III....Flash...Cure III....wait...Provoke at 30 seconds. If I'm not taking enough damage for a Cure III quickly enough I'll toss a Shield Bash or a Sentinel in if need be but usually those can be reserved till later.
Past the 30 second mark (aka Provoke 2) I start thinking about WS timing and the next Cure III and Flash useage. I try to watch the damage the rest of the party is doing and how often I'm hitting as a gauge on where my relative hate level is at. Usually 1 or 2 hate tools inbetween Provokes is all I need, though really nasty mobs can up that a bit.
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