The DD Paladin

[Murda]

Re: The DD Paladin

My Setup...yes i know im a little late lol...

~~Weapons~~
Main-Company Sword
Sub-Joyeuse

~~Armor~~
Head-Walahra Turban(O-hat for Weapons Skills)
Earrings-Assault&Coral
Neck-Royal Guards Necklace
Body-Haubergoen
Hands-PLD AF(currently lookin for something better)
Ring 1&2-Flame Rings
Waist-Warwolf Belt
Legs-Ryl. Kgt. Breeches
Feet-Rutter Sabatons
Ammo Slot-Bibiki Seashell(sumtimes Happy Egg)
Back-Knightly Mantle(until i can afford Amemet +1)

[Maju]

Re: The DD Paladin

If you're going for pure damage output, ditch the /NIN and go as /WAR. /NIN is all about shihei and if you don't pull hate anyway, you might as well go as /WAR.

[Karinya]

Re: The DD Paladin

/NIN isn't just about shihei. It's also about the opportunity to benefit from the special properties of an offhand weapon (in this case, joyeuse or justice sword).

What I have now (and what I want to upgrade it to [and what I can't get because it's part of a mutually exclusive set]):
Bayard's Sword (Excalibur, maybe Hrotti, Princely or Shiva's Shotel)
Joyeuse (Justice Sword)
Rosenbogen (Virtue Stone - with the J-sword, obviously - otherwise Ifrit's Bow)
O-hat (Homam Zucchetto or Walahra Turban, Hecatomb for WS)
Royal Guard's Collar (Fortitude Torque, Chivalrous Chain)
Coral Earring x2 (Assault, Brutal, Ethereal, [Suppanomimi])
Narasimha's Vest (Hauby, Amir or Homam Corazza, Hecatomb for WS)
Sipahi Dastanas (Pallas/Alkyoneus Bracelets, Homam Manopolas, Hecatomb for WS)
Ruby Ring x2 (Flame, Mars, [Rajas])
Amemet Mantle (Charger, Forager, Cerberus)
Warwolf Belt (Ninurta)
Galliard Trousers (Valor, Homam; Hecatomb for WS)
Rutter Sabatons (Amir, Homam; Hecatomb for WS)

Most of the upgrades are rare/ex expansion-HNM stuff, but I could still use another 20 mil or so for a hauby, Alkyoneus bracelets, flame rings, forager's mantle and a few other goodies. Hm, better make that 50 mil. :/

I haven't had a chance to try going all-out DD in a burn party though; I don't do much meriting and when I have, I've been /WAR and trying to tank off SA-Gekkos in the first 5 seconds of the fight and stuff like that, which calls for an all-out enmity setup.

[Armando]

Re: The DD Paladin

Karinya, out of curiosity, why not use Company Sword in the main hand? It's the second strongest non-Excalibur/non-Justice sword in the game (with the first being Joyeuse.)

[Maju]

Re: The DD Paladin

/NIN isn't just about shihei. It's also about the opportunity to benefit from the special properties of an offhand weapon (in this case, joyeuse or justice sword).

Or you could, you know, just main hand joyeuse as /WAR and attack twice as fast as a /NIN with company and joyeuse.

[dirtyclown]

Re: The DD Paladin

I'm sure the proper counterpoint to that would be that with /NIN you have the possibility of 3 attacks, thereby making up for the delay. Although you have the same thing with /WAR's Double Attack. Hmm. I think I'll have to go with Maju on this one.

[Liquidedust]

Re: The DD Paladin

Or you could, you know, just main hand joyeuse as /WAR and attack twice as fast as a /NIN with company and joyeuse.

While mainhanding a multi-hit weapon speeds up TP gain it is far as good as twice as fast. With Joyeuse, which is "only" occasionally hits twice, you would have a TP gain roughly 30-40% faster with /WAR single-wielding Joyeuse (and taking Double Attack into consideration).

However your weaponskill damage with Vorpal Blade (basically your best WS in a spammage party nine times out of ten) would be quite low due to your DMG:35 on Joy.

By combining /NIN with for example Company Sword (DMG: 56 in a full pt) with a Joyeuse you would lower your TP gain with around ~30% but your weaponskill damage on Vorpal Blade would be 50-60% higher, compared to single-wielding Joy with /WAR.

This is thanks to the extra hit on WS while dual-wielding as well as significantly higher DMG rating on the Company Sword (and yes this is taking Berserk as well as Double Attack from /WAR into consideration).

This combined with shadows to take 0 damage, or near 0, over a prolounged period of time makes /NIN win out in basically any spammage/TP Burn situation.

A spammage/TP Burn party is not all about how fast you can gain TP it is also about maximizing your damage as well as minimizing the damage taken while doing so. Sadly /WAR, while very efficient in a traditional exp party, falls behind in a spammage/TP Burn situation compared to /NIN.

I'm sure the proper counterpoint to that would be that with /NIN you have the possibility of 3 attacks, thereby making up for the delay. Although you have the same thing with /WAR's Double Attack. Hmm. I think I'll have to go with Maju on this one.

Double Attack doesn't stack on top of the traditional old multi-hit weapons sadly, they do stack with the Sea weapons (such as Justice Sword or Fortitude Axe). On a Joyeuse or Ridill however you'll never see them attack 3 or 4 times in the same combat round.

Double Attack can trigger on a Joyeuse or Ridill, but not at the same time as the weapons occasionally hit X's trigger.

[Maju]

Re: The DD Paladin

While mainhanding a multi-hit weapon speeds up TP gain it is far as good as twice as fast. With Joyeuse, which is "only" occasionally hits twice, you would have a TP gain roughly 30-40% faster with /WAR single-wielding Joyeuse (and taking Double Attack into consideration).

However your weaponskill damage with Vorpal Blade (basically your best WS in a spammage party nine times out of ten) would be quite low due to your DMG:35 on Joy.

By combining /NIN with for example Company Sword (DMG: 56 in a full pt) with a Joyeuse you would lower your TP gain with around ~30% but your weaponskill damage on Vorpal Blade would be 50-60% higher, compared to single-wielding Joy with /WAR.

This is thanks to the extra hit on WS while dual-wielding as well as significantly higher DMG rating on the Company Sword (and yes this is taking Berserk as well as Double Attack from /WAR into consideration).

True, Joy has a lower base dmg, however, the hidden damage modifier of Company Sword does not according to my knowledge affect WS at all. I'm sure Berserk, the passive atk bonus and the higher str of /WAR would bring Joy WS quite close to a /NIN Company WS.

And if /WAR gains TP roughly 30-40% faster, its auto-attack DoT will also be considerably higher even with the high base damage of Company Sword.

Double Attack doesn't stack on top of the traditional old multi-hit weapons sadly, they do stack with the Sea weapons (such as Justice Sword or Fortitude Axe). On a Joyeuse or Ridill however you'll never see them attack 3 or 4 times in the same combat round.

Double Attack can trigger on a Joyeuse or Ridill, but not at the same time as the weapons occasionally hit X's trigger.

This is correct and a valid point, but DA is still a bonus even with a frequently multi-attacking weapon such as Joyeuse.

[dirtyclown]

Re: The DD Paladin

Double Attack doesn't stack on top of the traditional old multi-hit weapons sadly, they do stack with the Sea weapons (such as Justice Sword or Fortitude Axe). On a Joyeuse or Ridill however you'll never see them attack 3 or 4 times in the same combat round.

Never said it stacked, but DA still triggers on it's own. Thanks for that bit of information I was already aware of though.

[Tsingtao]

Re: The DD Paladin

In my experience which I admit is limited I have found /NIN and off handing the joyeuse to be the best set up in terms of DoT. Don't have a massive amount of stats or any of that joy but stick on a suppanomimi and you'll find that it makes one heck of a lot of sense.

[Karinya]

Re: The DD Paladin

Karinya, out of curiosity, why not use Company Sword in the main hand? It's the second strongest non-Excalibur/non-Justice sword in the game (with the first being Joyeuse.)

Because it doesn't have +3 STR (which goes a long way to make up the damage gap, especially in overall damage since it applies up to 3 times per round if Joyeuse procs) and a very nice Evasion Down proc.

Vorpal damage would be slightly higher with Company, despite the STR modifier, but overall damage isn't as good, I think - particularly when you take into account the effect of the eva down proc on other pt members.

I haven't done any rigorous parse comparisons, though. YMMV.

[Geto]

Re: The DD Paladin

First time ever last night I went DD Paladin. It was an odd request at the time but I clearly understood when we raked 12k with little effort (and no thinking for meh).

Static'n with friends and we invite a NIN and a BRD who are also static'n between themselves. We were all lvl 60's leveling off Puks in Wajaom.

RDM/WHM, BRD/WHM, PLD/NIN, WAR/NIN, WAR/NIN, NIN/WAR

I must say, this was prob the best party I've been in a long time.

Though I asked clearly "(Paladin) 60 / (Ninja) 19 ok?" just to not offend anyone.

/laugh Yeah I know, I wasn't expecting to sub anything besides WAR.

Clearly my role in the party was just to swing, throw in Vorpal Blade, Flash, and CureIII anyone who lost shadows.

Sometimes the concentrating tank likes to throw it down and smash some faces too ya know.

My suggestion would be for almost everyone to lvl up their NIN's, b/c it'll be helpful in the future.

[Empedocles]

Re: The DD Paladin

Just a random thing I was thinking the other day:

Would Martial Sword (main) + Kraken Club (sub) outdmg Company + Joyeuse?

Prices of gear to complement either combo is not an issue, if you are rich, lucky or dedicated enough to have both of these, other gear shouldn't be a problem....

[Karinya]

Re: The DD Paladin

I assume you mean Martial Anelace... Vorpal Blade won't benefit much from TP Bonus, so I doubt it would be a good mainhand compared to things with higher DMG. Martial anelace is good for Spirits Within though, since that ignores weapon DMG and is solely based on your HP, TP and the monster's damage reduction (if any).
Hmm, I've never heard anyone else claim that Company's hidden effect doesn't apply to WS... what's your source for that information? If true, one more reason to prefer Bayard's.
As for the kraken, it depends on how weak the enemy is and how much you're concerned about giving it TP. Kraken has terrible DMG, much worse than Joyeuse. If you're hitting for 0, you're not getting TP. If you're hitting for very low amounts, you're getting TP but also giving it to the monster and not doing much overall damage.
IMO, you should only use Kraken if you can do decent per-hit damage with it; otherwise any benefit for the party from your tp gain will be offset or more than offset by the problems you'll cause by giving more tp to the monster and/or your low normal hit damage (for most melee jobs, normal hit damage is over 2/3 of total damage done - sometimes as much as 4/5).

[Davitron3000]

Re: The DD Paladin

Hmm, I've never heard anyone else claim that Company's hidden effect doesn't apply to WS... what's your source for that information? If true, one more reason to prefer Bayard's.

Here is the thread about this on KI.
http://www.killingifrit.com/forums.php?m=posts&q=130683

I read this and I was kinda shocked by it, because I always thought (hoped) it did
have a secret latent affect.

Regardless of whether or not the Company Sword has a 'secret' latent effect of more
damage, it is still one of the top dps swords. As stated in one of the posts, if you
line up dps numbers from ffxi.somepage.com you get this order:

Excalibur > Bayard's > Company > Hrotti

Now I don't know how they calculate dps, and I know that a Joyeuse would be up
there because of its double attacking, but it seems to me Company Sword is still
not bad. Also, it is way cheaper/easier to obtain than Excalibur, Bayard's, Hrotti,
Joyeuse, or Justice Sword.

I have a Company Sword and I will hang onto it probably unless one of 3 things
happen. 1. I camp Charby and get a Joyeuse, 2. I get a ton of money and buy a
Bayard's Sword, or 3. I get a Hrotti or Justice Sword (no chance on Hrotti and a bit
away from Justice). Note also that Exping is a very small part of my Paladin right
now, so the need for a damaging sword is not great. (for HNM the "Spiked Beaver
Tail" sword is my sword of choice)