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  • Shield Mastery

    I'm sure all of you are very excited about our new job trait. I know I sure am. Anyways, because of my curiosity, the ammount of speculation, and the current lack of knowledge on Shield Mastery, I decided to test what exactly determined the bonus TP. I reached two conclusions:

    1) Shield Mastery grants an extra 2 TP when you shield an attack. This means that for every three-and-one-quarter or so shield blocks we get as much TP as we would've from landing a sword swing. Normal (non-MNKs, non-NIN, etc.) mobs give 2.1 TP per hit, and therefore, an attack shielded by a person with the Shield Mastery trait gives 4.1 TP.

    2) The 2 TP bonus is constant regardless of the size of your shield. That means that against mobs on which your shielding rate isn't capped (i.e. IT mobs,) smaller shields should provide a better TP gain, due to the simple fact that they should allow you to shield more often. Wether as a PLD we shield significantly more with a buckler as opposed to a kite shield, and wether the trade-off in damage from using a smaller shield is significantly hurtful or negligible is something I haven't looked into.

    Normally, to obtain the exact TP value of an attack, one would attack (or be attacked) 10 times. However, while it's possible to determine the TP gained from a full hit using this method, the probabilities of shielding 10 times in a row are far too slim. So, instead, I recorded each individual hit's TP gain, and wether or not it was a successful hit or a shielded hit. Knowing how much TP a successful hit would give, I then proceeded to find what TP value for shielded hits would fit the pattern. This is how I reached the conclusion that Shield Mastery awards an extra 2 TP to your normal TP gain. To keep the experiments "clean," I stopped recording data as soon as the mob hit me with a TP move.

    My data will be listed as such:

    Mob (TP gain from normal hits) | Shield (Size)
    (Hit or Shield) (TP gained), etc.
    H = Successful hit from the mob
    S = Shielded hit

    Double Attacks or simultaneous attacks (Mandragora) will be denoted with two letters.

    ---

    Goblin Smithy (2.1 TP) | Master Shield (Size 2)
    HS 6, H 8, H 10, H 12, S 16, S 20, S 24, H 26, H 29, S 33, H 35, S 39, S 43, S 47, H 49, S 53, H 55, S 59, H 62, S 66, H 68, H 70, H 72

    Goblin Smithy (2.1 TP) | Royal Knight Army Shield (Size 3)
    S 4, S 8, SS 16, H 18, S 22, S 26, S 32, H 32, H 35, S 39, H 41, S 45, H 47, H 49, H 51, S 55, H 57

    Goblin Smithy (2.1 TP) | Royal Knight Army Shield (Size 3)
    H 2, H 4, S 8, S 12, H 14, H 16, H 18, H 20, S 24, H 27, S 31, H 33, H 35, H 37, H 39, H 41, H 43, S 47, H 49, S 54, H 56, H 58, S 62, S 66, H 68, S 72, H 74, H 76, H 78

    Yuhtunga Mandragora (1.4 TP) | Master Shield (Size 2)
    S 3, HH 6, H 7, H 9, H 10, H 11, H 13, HS 18, H 19, H 20, HS 25, H 27, HH 29, H 31, H 32, HH 35, S 38, H 40, HH 43, S 46, H 47, SH 52, H 54, HS 58, H 60, HH 63

    Yuhtunga Mandragora (1.4 TP) | Royal Knight Army Shield (Size 3)
    H 1, H 2, S 6, SH 11, SH 15, HH 18, S 22, H 23, H 24, HH 27, HS 32, S 35, H 37, SH 42, S 45, S 48, H 50, HH 53, HH 55, H 57, H 58, HS 63, S 66, H 68

    ---

    Remember that the TP values shown are only the whole numbers; the decimals are hidden. However, in all the tests against Goblin Smithies, if you add 2.1 for every hit, the only value for shielded hits that'll match every single number (i.e. the decimals add up properly so that the TP increases by 1 point on the right hit) is 4.1. In the test against the Yuhtunga Mandragoras, the only value for shielded hits that'll add up properly is 3.4.
    Last edited by Armando; 04-19-2006, 07:22 AM. Reason: Typos

  • #2
    Re: Shield Mastery

    Well, that solves all the questions I had about the new trait. Nice work Armando. I'm going to save this info onto my PC.
    sigpic

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    • #3
      Re: Shield Mastery

      No problem ^^ I was surprised, though. I was expecting there to be a trade-off in TP gain; Like, smaller shields would get a bit less TP while bigger shields would get more TP, to balance out the fact that one shields more often than the other. I'm not complaining, though...I love this job trait
      Last edited by Armando; 07-17-2006, 01:08 PM.

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      • #4
        Re: Shield Mastery

        What level is this?

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        • #5
          Re: Shield Mastery

          I've seen quite a few people say it's available at 25.
          sigpic

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          • #6
            Re: Shield Mastery

            Thanks for the info, and while the TP gain is really very nice, i personally like all of the S and SS, looked like the shield was activating a whole lot more.


            RNG67 BRD66 THF55 NIN35 WHM31 RDM35 WAR24 PLD30

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            • #7
              Re: Shield Mastery

              It is very nice to not end the battle with 98% TP knowing you have to switch out to a Dark Staff to heal your MP. I'm almost always able to use a WS before the fight is over.

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              • #8
                Re: Shield Mastery

                Was there an actual difference in your shield rate depedent on your shield's size? I never heard of the size affecting how often you blocked with it.
                Whm 75 Blm 37 Brd 75 | Bastok Rank 10 | Whm > Rdm

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                • #9
                  Re: Shield Mastery

                  Yes, that's been true since the last shield update. Small shields block more often, but block a smaller amount of damage each time; large shields block more damage, but don't block as often.

                  Thus small shields are better for shield skillup, and now, for shield mastery TP gain as well. But the damage saved when that large shield blocks Condemnation or Deadly Drive is pretty nice too.

                  Shield Mastery does make high level small shields like Highlander's Targe look more interesting... although in a lot of situations, I think the superior stats of Koenig or the intimidation of Tatami are still going to be preferable.

                  Shields have come a long way in recent patches.
                  Defeated: Maat, Divine Might, Fenrir, Kirin, Cactrot Rapido, Xolotl, Diabolos Prime, Kurrea, 9/10 Dynamis Bosses (missing Tav), Promathia, Proto-Ultima, Proto-Omega, 4 Jailers, Apocalypse Nigh, 6/6 Nyzul Bosses
                  RDM90, PLD90, DRG90, COR90, SCH90, BLU54
                  All Nations Rank 10, ZMs & PMs Complete, AUMs Complete, Captain, Nyzul Floor 100 (5 Weapons, 4 WS), Medal of Altana, WotG Mission 15, 1/3 Addons Complete, 9/9 Abyssea Main Quests, 6/6 Caturae

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                  • #10
                    Re: Shield Mastery

                    Thing that immediatly caught my intrest in that test is the fact that the Mandy gave back less TP a block then the Goblin did. It leaves me to wonder if the Shield Mastery might adjust the TP gain dependant on the difficulty of the mob, the harder difficulty of the mob would directly relate to a less chance of getting a successful block.

                    If I'm recalling correctly Goblin Smithy is stronger then the Mandy's so they would give back more TP for a successful block...

                    Yes as for the Shield sizes the smaller do block more often for less damage deflected while lagers blocks less with more damage deflected. This is why the Ageis Shield (The one you get through and upgrade to in Dynamis) looks to be such a sweet shield, it's the smallest size shield yet it seems to hold damage deflecting abilities of the largest shields.


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                    • #11
                      Re: Shield Mastery

                      Probably mandies have Subtle Blow since they're mnk type.
                      lagolakshmi on Guildwork :: Lago Aletheia on Lodestone

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                      • #12
                        Re: Shield Mastery

                        Originally posted by Taskmage
                        Probably mandies have Subtle Blow since they're mnk type.
                        Hmm, forgot about that ability too... Maybe that's it.


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                        • #13
                          Re: Shield Mastery

                          Has anyone taken note of the damage difference?

                          Im really curious if the reduction of damage is more or about the same. Also some comparisons of damage taken over time from maybe a previous pre patch parser?

                          75 BLU | THF | PLD


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                          • #14
                            Re: Shield Mastery

                            Regarding shield sizes: Yes, smaller shields block more often but reduce damage by less. However, I've been reading speculations and untested observations about larger shields kicking in nearly as often as smaller shields now.

                            Originally posted by Macht
                            Thing that immediatly caught my intrest in that test is the fact that the Mandy gave back less TP a block then the Goblin did. It leaves me to wonder if the Shield Mastery might adjust the TP gain dependant on the difficulty of the mob, the harder difficulty of the mob would directly relate to a less chance of getting a successful block.
                            It's not that it's adjusting to the difficulty of the Mandragora, it's that since (according to my tests) Shield Mastery is a static +2 TP bonus, if you get less TP when hit, then Shield Mastery will appear to give less. If you'll notice, the Mandragora was normally giving me 1.4 TP per hit, and when I shielded, it was 3.4 (1.4 + 2). On the other hand, Goblin Smithies give me 2.1 TP per hit, so when I shield I gain 4.1 (2.1 + 2).

                            As to why the Mandragoras gave me less TP...TP gained is based on the TP the mob gains. I found that the Yuhtunga Mandragoras got 5.0 TP per hit (most likely due to Martial Arts giving them low Delay on each hand.) Normally you get 1/3 of what they get (Smithies, having the normal 240 Delay, gain 6.4 TP per hit, and thus we gain 2.1.) However, the Yuhtunga Mandragoras should have Subtle Blow. Subtle Blow I is -5% TP given, and MNKs get it at level 10. We can assume that by 32, MNKs would already have Subtle Blow II, and that it'd give -10% TP given. That would result in a TP gain of (5.0 * 0.90)/3 = 4.5/3 = 1.5. However, FFXI works with fractions of 256, not 100. There are no fractions of 256 exactly equal to 9/10 or 1/3, therefore, we can assume that somewhere down the line, the TP gets reduced by just a bit more than the intended ammount, resulting in a product slightly less than 1.5, and when the extra decimals are dropped, we're left with 1.4 TP.

                            I didn't record the damage (Windower isn't working, and leaving the damage in the chat log would make the chat lot very congested...) but before I turned off the filters and did the more formal experiments, I was taking comparable damage between both mobs, in the 10-20 range.

                            Originally posted by net.drifter
                            Has anyone taken note of the damage difference?

                            Im really curious if the reduction of damage is more or about the same. Also some comparisons of damage taken over time from maybe a previous pre patch parser?
                            Sorry, don't have any of those D: Haven't EXP'd in a long time.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Shield Mastery

                              Armando, I kind of realized the mistake I made there after Taskmage reminded me that mandy's are MNK type and about Subtle Blow. Just didn't spend the time stating it here. Though you did a good job explaining it out if anyone else hadn't gotten it.


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