Why do look down on this type of pld

[Armando]

Re: Why do look down on this type of pld

If you insist...could you at least provide parses or something? Him "doing better" doesn't really say much, especially with no proof. My girlfriend (THF) is always going "I'm the weakest DD in the party D:" because of her relatively low-power swings, but she tends to come out on top when you look at the parsed numbers. It's easy to be deceived by big/small numbers.

[Apollo]

Re: Why do look down on this type of pld

If you insist...could you at least provide parses or something? Him "doing better" doesn't really say much, especially with no proof. My girlfriend (THF) is always going "I'm the weakest DD in the party D:" because of her relatively low-power swings, but she tends to come out on top when you look at the parsed numbers. It's easy to be deceived by big/small numbers.

Sorry to change the subject, but what, may I ask would be considered the number 1 and number 2 DD dealers in FFXI?

[Lunaryn]

Re: Why do look down on this type of pld

BST and DRG?

Seriously, I think it depends on the style of the party and what you're doing. I've heard the raw numbers do tend to favor BST and DRG, while DRK carries a better party reputation for it (at least on Middy). THF can do a lot of boosting to their Weapon Skills, and Daggers have better DoT than I think many give them credit for. BLM can dish out pretty huge numbers, the difficulty is avoiding hate in the process. To really try to set down a best DD is going to invite a lot of contentious argument, as people will always disagree over the context in which the data was collected and such, and tends to overlook the fact that differences in skill can totally overshadow any advantages/disadvantages that might be inherent to the job. In general, while S-E does not have perfect balance in anything, it's more that DD jobs have things that they are best at, rather than being more and less good in general

I will note, though, that at Dunes levels at least, DRGs are pretty impressive. In one party, the BLM was complaining that she couldn't MB once we invited the DRG because the mobs kept dying too fast.

...additionally, I should probably chastise you for posting this to a thread about a tanking class's equipment effectiveness.

[Sevv]

Re: Why do look down on this type of pld

sorry i truely dont have the time to set up tons of parties so you can see the damage but how well does the damage he does show how he is a better pld??? alls i know is that me and grim (drk) pulled hate off of every nin or pld tank even with the much "needed" sata, and he had no sata thru the first half of pt and me and grim did not recieve 1 point of direct attack damage and this was at lvl 60/61 with drk having guillitine.

[Armando]

Re: Why do look down on this type of pld

Well, you tell me how he's better? If it's not the damage, I just don't get it. The Great Sword doesn't give him some magical Enmity +10.

And yeah, there is no better DD. I've had parties where I needed DRGs, I've had parties where I really needed a SAM, I've had parties where the WAR's breaks were helping so much...it depends on your party and what you're fighting.

[Kittyneko]

Re: Why do look down on this type of pld

Well, you tell me how he's better? If it's not the damage, I just don't get it. The Great Sword doesn't give him some magical Enmity +10.

And yeah, there is no better DD. I've had parties where I needed DRGs, I've had parties where I really needed a SAM, I've had parties where the WAR's breaks were helping so much...it depends on your party and what you're fighting.

I'm sure a Paladin can keep hate with a Great sword, just as much, or more as a Paladin with a Shield.

Why is it kinda stupid to use GS?
1. You take more damage. This costs you(PLD) and the whm more MP. :/
2. You have less shield/guarding/parrying skill.
3. I don't know.

[Karinya]

Re: Why do look down on this type of pld

I don't think there's so much as a problem with a PLD who uses a Great Sword, because some of them do look pretty sweet. But Sword and Shield are more effecient.

Now, if the PLD was Lv.62+, and had a Mercurial Sword on their back, they may keep up with damage. But they still miss out on the stats from a 2nd slot, as well as the reduced damage from a Shield.

...Have you ever SEEN someone try to do damage with a mercurial sword? I have. It was horribly pathetic. It has a lower damage rating than Durandal! What would make someone think that it could ever be a worthwhile damage weapon?!

Mercurial sword is awful for any purpose other than skillup. Even for farming, Balan's or Nagan or Flamberge crush it - let alone Mythril Heart or Skofnung or something like that.

The next time I see a pld using a greatsword in exp, it better be Ragnarok. Too many of the other good greatswords are DRK only.

[Sevv]

Re: Why do look down on this type of pld

Hmmm lets see how he is better the mob hated only him not any stray shots to any mage or any other dd. Every paladin or ninja inculding ones who are 75 with me and drk being only 60/61 i have been taking damage for 25% of my hp or more his parry skill was also capped, he keeps his skills high. Also we had 2 pt set ups....

set up 1
PLD/War 60
Drg/War 60
Drk/War 60
Rdm/Whm 61
Rdm/Blm 60
Sum/Whm 61

pulled from 5k-6.5k an hour high chain was 7 or 8


pt set up 2
Pld/War 60
Drg/War 60
Drk/War 60
Thf/Nin 60
Rdm/Whm 61
Rdm/Blm 62

exp/hr 5.5-6.5k
high chain 10

pld took about 95% total damage all other damage 5% from pull / 1st voke an rare aoe getting off

Double Post Edited:
OK even i got off what this post was suppose to be it was not intended to say hey i gs pld are better than "standard" pld. No it was SE left alot up to the player to put his own spin on his job. I am just saying this pld is doing the job a bit diff and he is exceling yet plds on the server and ppl say he must tank like shit etc. instead of embracing that he kicks ass, it was suppose to be he is breaking the mold and why do u look down on him?

[Rostum]

Re: Why do look down on this type of pld

I'm sure a Paladin can keep hate with a Great sword, just as much, or more as a Paladin with a Shield.

Why is it kinda stupid to use GS?
1. You take more damage. This costs you(PLD) and the whm more MP. :/
2. You have less shield/guarding/parrying skill.
3. I don't know.

Actually, if you've ever seen the stats on swords and shields that Paladin's use, you'll notice that you can keep a lot better hate with them. Koenig shield has +Enmity and Durandal has +Enmity. I'd even take the +VIT over a Gsword in an exp party any day (AF1, Gluttony, Espadon+1, Durandal, etc).

I've also noticed that you can parry more with a 2 handed weapon. I get a lot more skill ups in parrying on my staff or great sword than I do with a sword.

Yeah, you take far less damage with a shield and sword combonation, and there are a lot of times when you really need Shield Break to be happening.

And SevIfrit, I have no idea what you're trying to tell us. O.o;

[Armando]

Re: Why do look down on this type of pld

SevIfrit, you still fail to show how how he would've been better using a Great Sword than a Sword + Shield. I don't care if he held hate all the way, that's not what's in question! We're questioning what's better: a sword + shield, or a great sword? For all you know he would've held even better hate if he had been using a sword. Besides, at 70 Company Sword owns most weapons in terms of DMG simply with its 56 DMG.

And Ome, two-handed weapons will parry more often, but that's only because you're not shielding. No shielding = more chances to parry. The probabilities are the same on both weapon, it's just that with shielding included, you get less chances for parrying. Even so, shielding is much more consistent, reliable, and downright better than parrying...but yeah, you're right, the bonuses on swords and shields are so good compared to other weapons and non-PLD/DRK-only shields.

Honestly, SevIfrit, I don't like putting it so harshly, but here goes...just because your friend is "unique" doesn't mean he's useful. I could get away with using a Great Sword on my WAR, maybe open up some Distortions and "break the mold." The fact remains that I'd be more efficient with a Great Axe. I could use a Boomerang on my RNG and "break the mold," maybe even keep up with all the other DDs. That doesn't change the fact I'd be doing much better with a bow. Your friend is cutting down his attack, accuracy, and defense, giving up valuable stats, and even a JA, just to "break the mold." Unless you can tell us why he'd be better off with a Great Sword than with the cookie-cutter Sword + Shield combo, the PLD community will continue to look down on GS-weilding PLDs simply because they're gimping themselves. Again, this is the same as going to the WAR forums and asking "why look down on sword/great sword-weilding WARs?" Maybe your friend doesn't like cookie-cutter combinations, but they've become cookie-cutter combos for a reason, you know?

[Asherek]

Re: Why do look down on this type of pld

...Have you ever SEEN someone try to do damage with a mercurial sword? I have. It was horribly pathetic. It has a lower damage rating than Durandal! What would make someone think that it could ever be a worthwhile damage weapon?!

Mercurial sword is awful for any purpose other than skillup. Even for farming, Balan's or Nagan or Flamberge crush it - let alone Mythril Heart or Skofnung or something like that.

The next time I see a pld using a greatsword in exp, it better be Ragnarok. Too many of the other good greatswords are DRK only.

I'm not going to comment on anything else in this thread, but I have a Mercurial Sword and properly used, it's not nearly as bad as you're portraying it.

Geared properly, your hits will be quite decent, not to mention the fact that you can literally spam Spinning Slash. With my DD + STR setup, I can easily hit 300ish Spinning Slashes on IT mobs in merit PT's. While 300 may not seem like much, combine that with the fact that in the time that it would normally take me to get 100% even with a Joyeuse, I've used Spinning Slash 3 to 4 times, and possibly even a 5th one if I've got Haste (and +Haste gear), it's not shabby at all. This thing attacks 2 or 3 times far far more often than it does a single attack.

I'm not saying that it's the absolute best that we can use, but don't knock unless you gear up and use it properly. It can be quite an effective DD weapon if geared properly, due to sheer damage over time.

[JeanRC]

Re: Why do look down on this type of pld

The next time I see a pld using a greatsword in exp, it better be Ragnarok. Too many of the other good greatswords are DRK only.

Does ragnarok here mean the server?
I had one mercury sword ;p but my skill is not close to max yet at lv 75. so maybe after getting it to max and the best greatsword ws a pld can with some str gear. i will try it ;p

[Zyph]

Re: Why do look down on this type of pld

BST and DRG?

Drugs are bad.

[Armando]

Re: Why do look down on this type of pld

Um...no, BST and DRG ARE very damaging DDs. Their pets give them very impressive DoT. Of course, you barely saw BSTs in parties, but with that "BST nerf" patch maybe we'll all get to see their DD potential first-hand.

[Karinya]

Re: Why do look down on this type of pld

Does ragnarok here mean the server?
I had one mercury sword ;p but my skill is not close to max yet at lv 75. so maybe after getting it to max and the best greatsword ws a pld can with some str gear. i will try it ;p

No, by Ragnarok I meant the fully upgraded relic weapon, because it MIGHT do enough extra damage to make up for the loss of shield blocking and +enmity and other useful stats on shields. It's also the best greatsword a PLD (or anyone else) can wield.

Asherek, what kind of gear would you recommend to get decent damage out of mercurial sword? I was in a party last night with a SAM using a GK with similar properties and he could self skillchain Light without 2hr, just Meditate running! - for maybe 1k total damage including sc effects, which is less than a normal weapon will do with just WS, meditate, WS even with no sc. And his normal hits were weaker than the pld's (and not *that* much more frequent; it may double attack a lot but its base delay is still that of a 2-hand weapon, so the total number of attacks is only on par with a 1-hander if you're lucky.)