PLD Post-50

[Ariesknight]

I just hit level 51. Took me a while to farm gear,etc. Now does anyone know a PLD-friendly place to xp? I was wondering where people xp from 50-60 and does anyone have any tips on holding hate? I have found now I lose hate every few battles (if things go normally) and sometimes more often, that is if I don't have a RDM for Refresh. Flash 'aint what it used to be and I don't know what to do. I eat crab, use defender, sentinel, shield bash, flash, cure, even cover if I have to.
Also, should I be using Defender every battle (as I currently am)?
Moreover I do not know what WS to use nowadays assuming I am left out of the SC (which I often am when no RDM in PT), can anyone help me out with what WS to use on what xp mob?
Thanks.

[csBahamut]

1) No pearty should be exping without a RDM or BRD refreshing people. You'll get like 1,000exp/hr (a wild guess).

2) Yes, this is where good PLDs start to shine in hate holding skills. Good PLDs will adjust to the greater damage output of the party(only using shild bash, sentinel, and later Rampart for emergencies), and learn better MP management(with Refresh of course). If you're having trouble holding hate because the BLM is casting Freeze, then that's your problem. If not, then maybe it's because the THF is tricking onto the DRK or RNG(another no-no). If neither of those, the you're probably taking too much damage, or not dealing any damage/whiffing.

3) You shouldn't need to be using defender at all except if the mobs start hitting you above 100 dmg per hit. Food plus standard PLD gear should do fine. Try playing around with +VIT and Phalanx rings to minimize your damage taken.

3) Don't worry too much about WS and SC's. I've rarely needed to rely on them to hold hate. Seraph Blade and Spirits Within serve me the best. Seraph Blade doesn't relay on accuracy, so it can only be magically resisted, and will typically do 40-130 dmg. Spirits Within depends on HP and TP %, ignores defense, and cannot interrupt the renkei(a big + in my book). It can do 100-140 at 100% TP and ~90% HP or more. At 300% and 100% HP, it'll do almost half your HP.

Hope that helps. If not, a posting of your equipment and typical party setup and tactics would allow a more in-depth analysis.

[Grizzlebeard]

Aries, I've been having the same problem with losing hate during fights as well. For me it usually happens when the other melee SC right after my first voke so I try to ask them to wait on second voke before starting it unless there's a thief in the party who tricks on to me as part of the opening SC. The method I've found that helps most is to retain my TP from the first fight the group has and on the second mob I voke on incoming, flash, and then throw my most damaging WS in against that particular mob, usually Seraph Blade. Then after second voke I'll pop Sentinel or Shield Bash and that will last me till my next flash is ready. The added damage early on in the fight gives me a buffer on my hate and I usually find after that I don't have any issues. If you do lose hate after that and it seems to be a certain individual who has issues managing their own hate I'll send them a tell and ask them to stand behind me when they SC or magic burst so I can at least use Cover on them if the problem keeps arising.

As for locations, I'd say 51-55 you're fine in CN xp'ing off Helm Beetles. I was 53 yesterday and despite wanting to go to Kuftal I was getting repeat requests to go to CN so I finally buckled and went there. The thing with the beetles is you have to chain them back to back to get decent xp, 140-210 or so, and if there's another group in the same spot it really kills the pulls as that spot is really perfect for one balanced fast group but lousy for two. Kuftal is good 52 onwards when the party has a black mage and can put out decent damage but before that the crabs take way too long to kill. You could probably xp there up to 55 as well. I can't stress enough how much you should resist going to the Boyahnda Tree pre-55 because you will get frustrated at the number of deaths you eat due to the spiders' sickle slashes. The other day I was hit for 740 or so followed immediately by a double of around 78 and 79. Unless you have multiple healers who can keep you perma full on hps that place is pure misery. Once you hit 55 and comfortably break the 1k hps mark I believe it will be a little more forgiving.

Going back to WS, the one I found that works in my current group in Seraph Blade > Piercing Arrow > Spinning Axe for Reverb and then Impaction. However, that entirely depends on group make up. I really keep meaning to print of the Renkei list I have. :sweat:

[csBahamut]

Aries, I've been having the same problem with losing hate during fights as well. For me it usually happens when the other melee SC right after my first voke so I try to ask them to wait on second voke before starting it unless there's a thief in the party who tricks on to me as part of the opening SC.

Hrm...I forgot about that too. Shouldn't be doing the renkei until after your second voke really. Doing ithe renkei before that will get the melees and/or BLM more hate than you can handle, and it won't always kill the mob that early into the fight.

[Negs]

Nice

I'm glad that somebody posted this thread, as I have also been having some issues w/ hate-holding. However, this is only an issue when I am partying w/ RNG.

I was wondering if RNGs can "Overshoot" much in the same way as BLMs can be accused of "Overnuking"? I was partying in the Tree the other day w/ a RNG who seemed to just totally go off on each mob. The THF who was supposed to Renkei w/ him gained TP very very slowly, so it left the RNG w/ a lot of time to gain TP and use WS's 2-3 times before the THF was ready to renkei. With that in mind, is it my fault that the mob would begin to attack the RNG? Or is there a balance that melee jobs should find, in order to keep the battles organized and un-chaotic. If the problem lies with me, then I would just like to know what I'm doing wrong, in order for me to correct the situation.

Other than that, I find things to be fine and dandy. But it really does help to have a BRD and/or a RDM partying with you. Having mp regenerating like that really gives you confidence when tanking. But try not to overdo things, because once you're in a situation where you don't have the MP regen, you may find that you have developed some bad habits. The key is learning exactly what to do to keep the mob on you. Learning to conserve and use just the right amount of MP combined with your Job Abilities keeps the fights flowing and the EXP chains comin'...

PLD,

Negs

[Ariesknight]

Thanks for all the help guys. I won't use Defender now unless I'm hit for 100+ and I will use Seraph Blade and throw up Sentinel+Shield Bash after my first voke as I wait for Flash to return. I'm hoping as I progress through 50 the Enmity+ of the AF armour will help me ^^,
Ariesknight

[Biterman]

csBahamut you are acting too cocky.

Yes, 49-59 is when PLD start to shine on hate holding but not because we are the gods of hate holding but because we get our first reality check and need to adapt and learn how to be efficient at it.

My advice is dont worry too much, every single PLD gets a slap in the face with Ancient Magic and Sidewinder at 50 and 55. Not to say you should slack and admit sometimes you will lose hate but dont lose fate in the job.

Tips that I think will help you before you can wear most of AF:
1) THF. A good thf is really valuable. Have him/her SATA you at the beginning of fight and SATA the end of SC onto you. For example, Sidewinder > Viper Bite = Distortion (IIRC), so RNG turns mobs with Sidewinder, THF SATA Viper onto you, then you voke/flash/what have you.
2) Cover. This ability is now even better since they lowered the timer from 5 to 3 min. Before the BLM uses his AM macro, have him stand behind you. Wait to see if he/she indeeds get hate after the MB then cover if necessary.
3) Dark staff. Before you get Spirits within you can sacrifice TP. A cure 3 will give you more hate than any WS before Spirits, burn a tad more mp, then get it back between pulls with a Dark staff.
4) A good PT. This, of course, doesnt entirely depend on you, but there is not much you can do if a RNG decides to start a fight with Sharpshot > Sidewinder > Barrage or if a BLM decides to cast Freeze as it first spell because its pretty and powerful.

If you like the job, keep at it. Things do change once you get most of your AF. 60-66 I actually had to hold back a tad on hate so Sidewinder would turn mob so I could get the THF WS SATA on to me.

[Ariesknight]

Thanks for your help Biterman. The only thing that makes me shudder from that is having to buy a 180K+ Dark Staff, I know it is MP+10 while resting but is it absolutely neccessary? Where I farm at the moment I can pull in 20K in 3 hours, that ain't great so getting this will be no easy feat unless anyone knows a better place for farming at PLD 51...If I do buy this Dark Staff do I keep it till 75?
Anyone else wanna' share some information? Also could someone please post a generic COVER macro since I can never get the macro right and end up using it manually .

[Grizzlebeard]

/ja "Cover" <st>

You could always put some text in there but I try to keep my macros spam-free generally.

As for the dark staff, I'm not sure if Biterman was suggesting using this until you have Spirits Within, ie 55th level. That being the case you'll probably just want to pass on the idea unless you have a stray 180k sitting around.

[Sathington]

The Darkstaff suggestion was mainly for healing up mp’s faster. Not to use during fights. It’s a great tool to have imo.

Originally posted by Biterman
60-66 I actually had to hold back a tad on hate so Sidewinder would turn mob so I could get the THF WS SATA on to me.

So true, it’s funny how you struggle at the beginning of your paly career to keep hate and that at higher level’s, you really need to step back and learn not to get too much hate.

[Ariesknight]

What does the <st> in the macro mean? For this macro to work do I have to take my lock off the enemy? Yeah, sadly I have no stray 180K, so no Dark Staff^^ I gotta' save for Gluttony Sword ^^ . I'm really looking forward to doing some nice damage with Spirits Within! It's a shame that I've gone back to struggling to keep hate without those RDM and BRDs...

[Grizzlebeard]

<st> allows you to target party members with the F1-F6 keys while still engaging the target. I use it on my heals also. When you pop the macro I detailed you'll get a blue/purple arrow over your head then you just need to hit F2-F6 (F1 is you) to select whoever you want to shield then hit return/enter.

[Ariesknight]

That's exactly what I wanted, thanks,
Ariesknight
Any other info. on my first question would be greatly appreciated.

[Rones]

3) You shouldn't need to be using defender at all except if the mobs start hitting you above 100 dmg per hit. Food plus standard PLD gear should do fine. Try playing around with +VIT and Phalanx rings to minimize your damage taken.

I haven't had a pld not use defender yet. The bonus in defence almost always outshines the drop in dmg the pld does (which isn't too much to begin with). Unless you are fighting T or below, I don't see why you wouldn't use it.

[Dark Aphalite]

50-52 = Crawler's Nest/Quicksand Caves
52-54 = Kuftal Tunnel
54-56 = Boyahda Tree
56-58 = Gustav Tunnel
58-60 = Cape Terrigan
60-62 = Valley of Sorrows
62-64 = Labyrinth of Onzozo