PLD XP PT with greatsword???

[tdh]

I was going to mention using Great Sword while doing BCNM40's, but out side of that, no. The delay, the lower skilled level, and lack of shield just don't make it worth while.

I've done a few BCNM40's with a PLD who used a Great Sword. She did pretty damn well. Though we did have a THF in the group as well. Though I still tanked every other mandy due to huge WS and abilities to get hate off the BRD. But she did pretty damn well really.

People mentioned PLD finishing Light with Spinning Slash? Wouldn't that end up being a pretty weak Light effect? 500dmg Spinning, then 500dmg Light. As opposed to what a DRK would do with SATA? Then again, somebody already mentioned that this pretty much would never happen....

[imac2much]

Originally posted by tdh
People mentioned PLD finishing Light with Spinning Slash? Wouldn't that end up being a pretty weak Light effect? 500dmg Spinning, then 500dmg Light. As opposed to what a DRK would do with SATA? Then again, somebody already mentioned that this pretty much would never happen....

Good point! Compared to what any THF or /THF can do, this skillchain pales in comparison. However, compared to all non THF and non RNG, this skillchain is actually quite good. DRK/THF only does that much damage because of SATAWS.

My example was within a PLD + WAR PT. I think our setup was : PLD/WAR, WAR/NIN, RNG/NIN, BLM, BRD, RDM. I didn't make this PT, one of the mages did, and many mages are not aware of the importance of good skillchain setups at levels 65-71 when you want to do lvl 3 skillchains but the WS's available for them are limited. (We were level 69 at the time)

The RNG obviously could not take part in a lvl 3 skillchain with us (Heavy Shot/ Arching Arrow takes same element spot as Mistral Axe). So the only option would be for the PLD and WAR to skillchain: Either Swift Blade -> Full Break or Full Break -> Swift Blade.

As most war/nin's can attest, Full Break is a pretty disappointing 225 WS. Many times it does same or less damage as a PLD's Swift Blade (with full tank setup, not attack setup). This results in 150->150 (100) skillchains ... pretty underwhelming. Since we had almost unlimited MP (thanks to RDM and BRD) but limited offense, I put on my Byrnie and GS, and we changed skillchain to Mistral Axe -> Spinning Slash. Even with full tank setup, my slashes could do 400 or so, 600 with minuet. Thus our new skillchain did about 300 -> 500 (250 or 500) damage (depending on whether the BRD landed light threnody or not)... a much better skillchain.

I'll be the first to admit this is NOT a common situation.. I was just giving an example where sometimes GS is more desirable. 99% of the time, however, it is not.

[Lyonesse]

Hey imac, have you ever done an all offensive Spinning SLash and gotten a Double Attack on the WS? I was wondering how much damage that would be heh.

[imac2much]

Wow I can't imagine.. must be over 1k damage o_o

I haven't ever experienced this because I almost never use GS now unless I sub /THF. Generally either in PT's or farming or whatever, joyeuse seems better DoT with /war (and especially with /nin which I use the most) than great sword, so that's what I like to sport. Great Sword becomes more useful with /THF to increase the damage of it's big-damage-but-long-delay hits and of course the single-hit WS Spinning Slash. But it'd definitely be nice to see a Double Attack + Spinning Slash :p

[Skold]

NO Use Staff, Jesus, If you want 2 H Weapon Use Staff... I use one, Staff Skill Capped... I tank with the Earth Staff... Spirit Taker Next Level Also... Lv63/64 I think... Greatsword isnt that good for PLD tho. BTW Staff caps Higher than Sword for PLD.

[imac2much]

What are you basing this on? Is this another ignorant comment? You've obviously never even used GS with spinning slash ... because you aren't even 69. How can you condemn a situation you've never experienced?

I have staff capped and GS near cap, I've used both in XP PTs. Staff is only viable on bones since joyeuse is piercing and doesn't do good damage on spartoi warrior/mages. Earth staff drops your DPS so badly...

I have it capped. I still have more skill with sword (A+ vs A-), and earth staff does same or less damage as espadon and joyeuse and I can attack 3 times with joyeuse in time of 1 staff swing. You take 20% less damage but lose shield blocking and shield bash. With near capped shield skill I block a couple times per fight, probably around 10%. So instead of a -20% damage reduction, earth staff is just -10% compared to sword+shield.

Spirit taker is a super WS, but not in xp pt. With a competent PT and good MP management, you should never be low on MP anyway. Retribution is more useful, but even then pales in comparison to spinning slash, and only BARELY does more damage than swift/vorpal blade.

Honestly how can you make such a bold condemning statement when you haven't even experienced either scenario?

[Skold]

Perhaps I should have Mentioned i am Tarutaru Player, lol. My WS Never do much damage, Sword Greatsword and Staff are all capped for me, And Greatsword isnt very practical at all, You build TP very Slow, So you can't Skillchain Easily, and my STR isnt very hard, but see your a Galka, they have the most STR in the game, the damage is varying with Race.

[imac2much]

You can think what you want, and I respect your decision :p If you don't want to use it, that's for the best, because I'll be the first to admit that sword and shield is better in 99% of xp scenarios. However, two things I want to point out:

1) Once again, you haven't experienced GS at 69. All WS, even for galka, elvaan, etc, are pretty weak on IT+... except spinning slash. It seems inherently more accurate than sword's multi-hit WS (as in, more likely to hit the 1 swing of spinslash as opposed to 4 hits of vorpal or 3 hits of swift), and that one hit is insanely strong. Full tank build and food, I probably hit swift/vorpal for 150's on IT+, but spinning slash for 400-500.

2) I think anyone can tell you that when it comes to stats racial differences don't make too much difference except when it comes to HP and MP. You should qualify your conditions before making a claim on something you haven't experienced... Your post did not say 'do not do this if you are taru'. Also, Elvaans have higher STR than Galka.

[July]

Originally posted by imac2much
With near capped shield skill I block a couple times per fight, probably around 10%. So instead of a -20% damage reduction, earth staff is just -10% compared to sword+shield.

Lol, I'm sorry I'm going to have to say that's bull. Against ITs having your shield doesn't reduce your damage taken by 10% nor would it make teh earth staff -10% compared to the sword and shield. The 20% is taken of every hit you take in a battle and your shield completely negates damage from 1 hit every 1 out of 8 hits or so. The damage prevented with a shield is nowhere near the accumalated reduced dmg from the earth staff. That was worth a good laugh though.

[lionx]

Dont know, my shield was capped from lvling WAR in valkurm for a few lvls and i blocked quite more times than i thought i would, while i might not say its 10% of the time i would say its more than i expected and i like. However this could be just valkurm talking..so dont take my word for it =/

[Rimheart]

I'd be interested to know if anyone ever used club / shield in an xp setting with much success. It seems a shame that we rarely, if ever, use this class A- weapon. There again, there aren't exactly many head-turning clubs. Titan is nice and of course Kraken but I can't see how viable they'd be in an xp setting. :sweat:

Grizzlebeard who is too lazy to log on to his own account. :p

[Grizzlebeard]

Damn straight.

[Lyonesse]

I use Club/Shield in XP party. Still do. Wish there were more Clubs I could use though.

On another note, I'm close to Spinning Slash. I'm at 213 Gsword skill =O.

[Grizzlebeard]

Originally posted by July
Lol, I'm sorry I'm going to have to say that's bull. Against ITs having your shield doesn't reduce your damage taken by 10% nor would it make teh earth staff -10% compared to the sword and shield. The 20% is taken of every hit you take in a battle and your shield completely negates damage from 1 hit every 1 out of 8 hits or so. The damage prevented with a shield is nowhere near the accumalated reduced dmg from the earth staff. That was worth a good laugh though.

Okay, so taking your 1 out of 8 hits, say each hit is for 70 points of damage, that's 560 damage total. So, with shield you're saying you negate 70 points of damage as opposed to 112 damage with an Earth Staff. That obviously doesn't allow for the fact the shield could have negated a critical hit which would give it the edge over the 20% mitigation of the Earth Staff. Now, with Earth Staff you stand to lose a significant amount of Def and Vit as well as Enmity on later shields as well as the option to avoid serious magic damage from Ancient and Ga 4 type spells due to the fact you lose Flat Blade and Shield Bash.