Joyuese

[LionhartPLD]

sell the glutt. If you want a backup or something get a Dainslaif andor Hrotti.

[Somajan]

Is a Joyeuse really that important for an exp party?

I thought I could use my Espadon til level 75.

And cuz I heard that NM was difficult, and getting my whole linkshell out to do something for me, when I haven't really done anything for them isn't something I wanna do just yet.

[Reanda]

Joyeuse is very useful, but like many other equipment it is not a requirement for exp party.

Good news is you can use a cheap Espadon forever. Yeah.

[ZQM]

Originally posted by Somajan
Is a Joyeuse really that important for an exp party?

I thought I could use my Espadon til level 75.

And cuz I heard that NM was difficult, and getting my whole linkshell out to do something for me, when I haven't really done anything for them isn't something I wanna do just yet.

Tanking as a WAR, it's amazing. I'd imagine it's the same for a PLD. The TP gain is just too good to give up, expecially since you'll be /WAR with double attack.

As for the NM, it isn't hard at all. The only problem is having a lot of HP, his kraken-style attacking isn't a problem with a competent NIN. I've done it with a NIN + RDM + BRD + RNG + WAR (me). You'd want to have a stunner though for the AOE. Don't bring too many melees so that he doesn't spam the AOE and crush the NIN. Just be sure to have a BRD for double mambo and a RDM or WHM for haste.

[LionhartPLD]

a good PLD with at least 3 good healers , at least one of which a rdm, and a bard, can win vs Char. Do not attempt to kite because it just makes things difficult for targeting cures. Also a good NIN + BRD can win.

[Patchinko]

Question: Does Joyeuse's added effect stack with Double Attack? Someone just said in another topic that these effects such as Joyeuse's and Ridill's do not stack with WAR's double attack ability, though I hope it's not true. ; ;

Also, RDM has a very good reason for wanting this sword: At 70+, RDM solos a great deal and there is no better sword for soloing, especially with high damage En spells adding 40 or 60 damage in a double or triple attack, so it is definately our ultimate sword.^^

[Rhayn]

The double attack from Joyeuse will not activate at the same time as the Double Attack job trait from warrior. In other words, you won't be able to do more than two attacks per round. I haven't done testing to be certain, but I believe the Double Attack trait is still active, but it will only go off when Joyeuse doesn't double attack.

[imac2much]

Warning: anal number crunching ahead:

According to some JP forum testing, double attack proc with /WAR sub is ~12% and Joyeuse/Ridill proc is 50%. Thus you would originally think that if you had Joyeuse and /WAR it would be 62% right?

Somewhat wrong, since as Rhayn says, you cannot have both procs go off at once. This would potentially happen 50% * 12% = 6% of the time. Thus 6% of the time you are losing a double attack proc. So the total stacked double attack chance would be 50% + 12% - 6% = 56% if these numbers hold true.

[Patchinko]

I posted this in another topic, but the rate for double attack according to the Dengeki Playstation guide vol. 2 is 9.3% (93/1000 attacks). Seems pretty solid, since everyone gives about 10%, and I'd agree too since I get it about once or twice every fight, depending on if I'm dual weilding.

Anyhow, I basically agree with your thought. I'm assuming the roll for double or triple attack on Joyeuse happens first, then the roll for double attack from the WAR ability happens. Someone could confirm it with a test, but it'd be a pain and not really needed. Sufficed to say they unfortunately definately don't stack. ; ;

[Somajan]

In the field I've seen plds do constant streams of double hits and almost never stopped.

[imac2much]

I contend that at some point they went through a streak of no double hits as well.

When you just observe something without recording results, it's hard to think it has much factual basis. Yeah.. maybe I'm too anal, but I trust actual testing and experimenting with solid numbers than mere observations. Several people I've talked think "man double attack happens much more than 10%" because it's so different than a normal animation it stands out in your mind. But then take down the actual numbers over a period of 1000 swings or something and you realize it's much closer to 10% than what you may have previously perceived.

I used to think Joyeuse had a 75-80% proc rate as well, because it just seemed like I was swinging nonstop. Then I started taking down some numbers and it was something like 56/100 (with /thf sub). 100 is a pretty small experiment base, but it's enough to prove it's closer to 50 than it is to 80.

[ClydeArrowny]

Off topic sorta:

Every BRD I know on the server that has one lotted on it out of selfishness even though there was a DRG or some other person who would need it much more.

you have no right to deny a person a lot. they worked just as hard as you to kill the NM. in the case of A.S. it is the best armour other than scorpian harness that the support backline can wear

I see where both of these points come from. It would be nice if a person who only has use for it solo would pass for someone who can use it in PTs, but they themselves have a right to lot on it and shouldn't be harrased about it if they win the lot. Only thing that really gets to me is when the lv60 blm with no other jobs above 30(except for a lv32/34 whm as sub) wins the lot on AJ(happened to me twice.) Note, blm cant equip it. This can apply to other situations such such as the minstrel coat scenario someone else mentioned.
Now hypothetically, if joyeuse was dropped off a NM spawned off lv mobs, you probably wouldnt expect drgs and brds to pass it for the pld in an exp pt, though it would be nice if they did. However if a thf with no other job above 30, with exception for 30-37 subjob depending on lv of exp area, won the lot....a lot of people would be very upset over it. Note, thf can't equip joy.

[Sadeira]

btw, charybdis is actually a 6 hour lottery pop

a friend was able to pop him twice within 8 hours

[tdh]

As a DRK and RDM, I would love to have a Joyuese, but I understand that having it for my RDM is secondary to a PLD having one.

A RDM with a Joyuese in a duo or trio party for EXP would really kick ass. But I can speculate why people would say PLD getting one isn't the first thought. They'd consider that a PLD already holds hate pretty well with a sword that doesn't offer any additional hits. So the sword they've already been using does the job, not having it doesn't make any real difference. They also wouldn't use it for god battles. So why should their job class be at the top of the list.

In a duo or trio party, a RDM with a Joyuese turns things even further in the groups favor. RDM/NIN with a Joyuese and Enhancing Sword could tank for the small group, and the group would do very well.

So I can see the school of thought that puts RDM higher then PLD. Though I would allow my PLD to get his hands on one first. Just something a LS Leader does. Not to mention the PLD I've worked with has tanked for me a billion times over. (Lv.20-30 when we first met, then Lv.10-Lv.51 once we unlocked PLD and DRK.)

Not so sure of the job order for getting a Joyuese, but I'd say RDM would be pretty near the top. Behind PLD, maybe THF, but ahead of BRD and DRG.

[DarkHero]

duo trio party?do people even do that after lvl 70? how is an rdm/nin supposed to tank? were is the hate going to come from?