Koenig Armors

[freebird]

Finally, my LS is strong enough and we are going to take on sky Gods soon!
Now Koenig armors isnt unreachable dream to me, and I will eventurally get it someday. But I still have some questions about it...

1) So far with all the equipment I have, I noticed that HP+dmg reduction build works the best, better then VIT build. With Koenig armor set, +170HP which is godly needless say. But how good is +60 VIT? Does that mean I can tank the mob that used to hit me 200-300 and crit hit me 300-400?

2) Koenig armor set has massive -DEX/STR. Is it only good for tanking Hard HNM not so good in exp party against IT?


Thank you.

[elephants]

The -STR and DEX isn't good in exp parties, but it's okay in HNMs. It is missing enmity bonuses though, which could make your life a little bit harder.

[freebird]

I believe emnity works when you do action like land hit/flash/cure etc...
On real HNM you usually just miss hit anyway so I dont konw how you can get hate from landing hits. Also Koenig has like +60 CHR, doesnt it help Provoke make it super strong?

Yes I konw the STR/DEX reduce is horrible but does the VIT/CHR makes you a super tank that even STR/DEX reduce are wrorth?

[IamNate]

response

A pld in full Koenig can tank mobs like Fafnir up front, w/o the ninja blink sub. That says alot, he hits hard, and fast. The - on the str/dex arent the best for hitting a mob, but paladins werent expected to be damage dealers. A pld in full Koenig, could actually be used in a exp party, granted you wouldnt be doing any damage whatso ever, and renkei is out of the question.

The +chr is for provoke, the higher your chr the stronger your provoke becomes. Its kinda self explainatory in the JA name and all :\ but if that helps any.

[Deodorant]

PLDs don't need full koenig to tank fafnir, he doesn't hit that hard <_< ...

[Demetrios]

A pld in full Koenig can tank mobs like Fafnir up front, w/o the ninja blink sub.

I do not know of a Paladin who subs Ninja for Fafnir. With Aerial Armor you do not need Utsusemi.


Kinda a unrelated question, but can anyone confirm which mobs the M.Body drops from? I know Nidhogg does for sure, but can Kirin, Aspidecholone, or King Behmoth drop it?

[Lynsy]

Body only drops from Nidhogg.
Charisma does not affect enmity but rate at which hate is reduced--in other words, you do not get more hate with higher charisma from provoking or anything else, but you lose less hate over time and less hate loss from hits taken.
There is a very noticable difference in damage take by PLDs in Full Koenig and PLDs with AF1 (I have fought the same fights with both having elsewise similar gear), though I coulnd't give you an exact amount of damage reduction.
The STR and DEX loss is almost irrelevant on anything you would actually want to use Koenigs for anyways (Which, BTW, would never be in an XP PT) as even without it you would rarely hit and hit for 0 when you did.
Koenigs is good stuff, but there is no NM that is "Koenigs required," all can be done with straight up AF1--"less than 1337" gear wont keep an alliance of good players who know what they are doing from taking stuff down, good gear basically just gives you more margin for error (fewer people, bad situations, whatever the case may be).
And if you can't compensate for the damage on Fafnir (or any NM) without NIN sub, then you seriously need to rework your plan cause that's just pointlessly nerfing yourself.

[imac2much]

Originally posted by Lynsy
Charisma does not affect enmity but rate at which hate is reduced--in other words, you do not get more hate with higher charisma from provoking or anything else, but you lose less hate over time and less hate loss from hits taken.

This is all very well and good, but where do you get these "facts" from? If it's just your speculation, please don't state it as if it's 100% truth.

I've read something similar to this in some JP forums, but no one was sure; it was just theory and speculation. Other theories include:
CHR increasing the aggro from Provoke
Provoke having a set amount of aggro and CHR decreases aggro from other characters
Provoke having a variable amount of aggro and CHR increases the mean
etc etc

This is all speculation, and if high level NA and JP PLD testing has not been able to come to a conclusion, how has a lv 75 WHM come across this "fact?"

When citing secondhand hearsay, it's best to add the necessary disclaimer.

[Zaptruder]

Whatever the case is, we're all pretty sure that charisma has an affect on holding hate (probably through voke), reasoned by the fact the designers SURELY wouldn't bother giving us so much charisma if we didn't need it (charisma appears constantly on our equips, AF1 Boots, Koenig gear (which is supposed to be pld end game)).

Just that charisma stmying the effects of hate deterioration sounds like the most logical, or perhaps fairest idea given that provoke isn't native to paladin (even tho we're 99% likely to sub it during any serious group session), why give us a focus or emphasis in a statistic that relies so heavily on an outside job?

The closest we've got the designers to saying anything about the issue is that charisma doesn't add to the enmity stat, like str does to attack and dex does to accuracy.

[imac2much]

Why indeed. But just because something would make sense, does not make it true. I prefer testing myself.

There have been numerous tests with 2 identical people with otherwise identical equipment. One person would add maybe +10 CHR gear, then they would voke different monsters at the same time... the one with +CHR would always win. Then they switch equipment and repeat, ... the new person with +CHR would now win.

Yes you can argue that 'omg they couldn't have both used provoke at exactly the same time!', but the fact that the +CHR voker won 100% of the time should quell that complaint. If it was actually indeed random or based on lag, the person with +CHR would not *always* win.

Why do they give us PLD's such reliance on a JA not inherent to us? Why indeed? I've heard and found stranger things in this game.

[ObsidianII]

I'm not sure how it all works, but I can tell you this much: the more koenig I get, the harder it is to hold aggro =( I notice a significant (and I mean extraordinarily significant) difference between wearing adaman and koenig in terms of how much hate I generate. The damage I take is considerably less at the same time, but as I replace my adaman with koenig I note my abilities seem to be getting less and less useful in terms of hate. I seem to be finding myself spamming cures like a madman (EVERY single round of combat at least cure 3) and still losing hate, whereas with adaman I would only lose hate when a ranger would decide to slug shot > barrage > slug shot > eagle eye shot or something obscene, and even then I would get hate back with a simple warcry. This is not really the case anymore, warcry and what not seem to do absolutely nothing for hate now, and provoke seems weaker as well. Maybe it's just been bad luck though, since I have been solo tanking lately and usually there are at least 2 plds.

[Lynsy]

Originally posted by imac2much
This is all very well and good, but where do you get these "facts" from? If it's just your speculation, please don't state it as if it's 100% truth.

I've read something similar to this in some JP forums, but no one was sure; it was just theory and speculation. Other theories include:
CHR increasing the aggro from Provoke
Provoke having a set amount of aggro and CHR decreases aggro from other characters
Provoke having a variable amount of aggro and CHR increases the mean
etc etc

This is all speculation, and if high level NA and JP PLD testing has not been able to come to a conclusion, how has a lv 75 WHM come across this "fact?"

When citing secondhand hearsay, it's best to add the necessary disclaimer.

Its not speculation...Square Enix said so in an interview--If you want to accuse me of shit, you get your facts straight first.
1) I'm not 75, never have been, prolly wont be for a while
2) I came to this conclusion by reading ^^

http://ffxi.crgaming.com/interviews/...iew.asp?Id=272

The charisma attribute does not affect hate or enmity.

Now in light of this statement in conjuntion with the fact that it has been proven via testing many times that CHR has some play in the whole situation, it is merely logical to assume what I put forth.

[Zaptruder]

That said... Imac2much is right though... while it might make sense to assume that charisma affects us positively, there's been little proof that it does.

Indeed, Obsidian's anecdotal evidence seems to suggest that the enmity loss from adaman/AF armor and also sheer damage loss affects hate holding very negatively... while the huge charisma gain doesn't seem to be working as he'd expect it to be.

....

Hahah... maybe we were meant to use koenigs in conjunction with /bst and adaman set to be the ultimate tanks; you tank with your pets until you run out, then continue to tank by holding hate as best you can without voke.... :p

[Ziguld]

Mage pets dual wield.
Warriors can kill Necromancer pets one on one.
Alchemy works.
The Sleeper script is working.
Emp Ssra is working as intended.
The Rathe is beatable.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Sorry but let the gamers test it. Forget what the 'offical' statements are because the people giving them are almost always clueless and making up shit on the spot.

[nuvas]

Originally posted by Lynsy
Its not speculation...Square Enix said so in an interview--If you want to accuse me of shit, you get your facts straight first.
1) I'm not 75, never have been, prolly wont be for a while
2) I came to this conclusion by reading ^^

http://ffxi.crgaming.com/interviews/...iew.asp?Id=272

Now in light of this statement in conjuntion with the fact that it has been proven via testing many times that CHR has some play in the whole situation, it is merely logical to assume what I put forth.

All it says is it was an interview with Square Enix. I very seriously doubt it was an interview with a developer, more likely it was a CS rep or similar position. You say there is proof but where are you getting your proof? Who has posted tests and posted the results of said tests? As far as I can tell I would definitely say what you posted is speculation. I want to know who the interview was from, a name and a position they hold in the company before I start believing anything other than what's on the PlayOnline site.