If Paladins could provoke...

[Chyekk]

I've been holding on to the pipe dream that at some point in the future Paladin's might get provoke as a job ability of their own (rather than inheriting it from war sub). If this ever happened, what would you sub? I think it would be a tough call between NIN (for blink) and RDM (phalanx, en*, more mp) with MNK (hp anyone?) also being viable. Just idle curiousity, I think PLD/NIN would be so overwhelmingly powerful as a tank that Square will never give Paladin's an excuse to sub that way.

[Cerrynus]

My opinion...

I think Monk would be pretty good also. More Hp, as well as boost and counter.

But really if paladins had provoke I think it would open up sooo many doors for some fun experimentation. I would probably most definitely try PLD/DRK, PLD/RDM, and PLD/BLM. Regardless of how effective the mixes may truly be after scrutiny, as I am sure there is going to be some here soon, I think they would be fun to play. And after all that is my goal in this game. To have fun.

[falloutboy14]

I think whm would be good sub-job ... stoneskin/blink/flash should give you 8-10 hits for 0 damage. You'd lost a maybe 8% of your vit, but your mp would double.

I like the phalanx idea except that I could never afford it ... DRK's Absorb-Vit would be good also.

[Chyekk]

The only problem I'd see with subbing WHM for blink/stoneskin, is that they'd be basically be impossible to cast in combat, even if preceded by flash. The casting times are just way too long. Speaking of which, another benefit to subbing RDM would be fast cast.

[Somajan]

When I subbed monk for Paladin I got a HUGE increase in vitality, this was only just for experimenting btw.

Also the ability to counter, (I mean you always ALWAYS get hit) plus the big HP increases, and the ability to guard some attacks (I think, didn't pay attention when I was a warrior/monk), aren't that bad either.

But the prospect of not being able to get Double Strike, and Eggshell at level 50paladin/25warrior. Makes it sound like I lose more from that, I guess it's a compromise.

But it would definitely breathe a great sigh of relief for those who like experimentation.

[Xarndelius]

Not sure about it, but wouldn't you paladins still want war for defender?

[Temeras]

Very few reasons to use defender, I like having it available but there is a threshold that more defense doesn't mean much, also your DPS drops dramatically. Just gonna say it and say that anyone over 50 should stop being a cheapstake and just buy fish mithkabobs or boiled crabs, hell I've been eating food since I was lvl 30, its really not too hard a habit to finance as long as you take some time to farm some mobs or better yet cook it yourself. If they ever gave paladins their own type of provoke I would sub..... Warrior. Double attack, good stats that align with paladin, warcry, attak bonus I, and having my paladin provoke with warrior provoke. Would make keep hate so easy, and would make HNM fights all the much easier to tank.

[Chyekk]

I can't speak with 100% certainty regarding Defender, since i'm only 49, but what I've heard is that most of the time you're better off reserving it for occasions when you're getting hit extremely hard, since the reduction in damage it gives is overshadowed by the loss of agro-generation caused by the reduction in your damage output. It definately has its uses, but I don't plan on using it every 5 minutes. Plus, with high enhancing skill and RDM sub, Phalanx would probably negate as much damage as Defender would.

*Edit* Ahh, Temeras beat me to it . And as far as food goes, I agree completely. I've been using Fishkabobs since the high 30s or low 40s (boiled crayfish before that), and I don't find that it to be too expensive at all. Depending on what we XP on I usually make enough money to cover at least 1/3 of the stack. The rest I make just by spending a bit of time farming casually. Waiting for a group in Jeuno? Just go into Qufim and solo some giants!

[hageshiku]

you would still sub war. 2 provokes.

[Claritin]

Logic behind 2 provokes please?

Unless they named PLD provoke something different than regular provoke it would not add anything.

That is like thinking that DEF bonus increases from WAR stack with PLD... they do not...

I would say in a group MNK would be the best...
Higher HP
Higher VIT
Counter Attack
Block - if this still works while you have a sword instead of H2H weapon... I dunno.

At the high end game you would also get chakra I think... that's lvl 35 right? That is a free heal.

Focus and Dodge skills to increase accuracy and to dodge more hits.

Tanks are

PLD
Maybe NIN if they don't fix it
WAR
MNK

PLD share most defensive stuff with WAR.. so MNK is best pick.

[Somajan]

I'm pretty sure that guard didn't do anything while my warrior subbed monk. I don't remember him ever guarding an attack that did from 0-10 damage when it normally did upwards to 30 or so.

[Silkiv]

Logic behind two provokes?

To provoke every 15 seconds by alternating the two, since the Pld wants the emnity.

This is of course assuming the Pld's "Provoke" has a different name, and has the same effect and cool down as warrior's provoke.

I have less experience as a tank (20 war) than anyone here, but the point I lose emnity is often within 10 seconds before provoke is available again. This is because the "spiked hate" of provoke begins to wear off.

And your example is different. For example A drk/war can do both Last Resort and Beserk at the same time. Or the drk can alternate them.

So far, no job has the exact same Job abilities so they can stack. Job traits on the other hand can be the same between classes and won't stack. So yeah Defense Bonus I of war and pld won't stack.

[Mithrael]

Guard only works with hand-to-hand weapons. Guard cannot kick in if you use a shield and no weapon in your main slot. Parry is also better than guard since parry negates damage and guard reduces it.

I think of all of the above reasons WAR or MNK would be used about equally, you get a benefit from both. Increased accuracy or Double attack? Increased HP or defender? Nothing really directly compares to Dodge. I guess one nice thing is that spamming boost increases hate quite a bit. Of course warcry gives a lot of hate too. Chakra would be a significant cure since your VIT should be through the roof as a pld/mnk with all of your VIT+ equip. Of course, it still won't be as nice as it is for monks who get Chakra=VITx3 with one of the af pieces.

[Arnda]

If PLDs had provoke? I'd be subbing Ninja. Not for the two swords, of course... but for blink? You betcha.

[XerO-CooL]

provokes wouldn't stack. Like the first defense trait of paladin w/ the first from warrior.

Just a heads up... but Paladins with Provoke = Wont happen. Don't even think about Paladins with Defender... though that's the way they SHOULD be, if they are supposed to be "tanks," they should strive at their job without the need of a SPECIFIC AND DESTINED subjob for the rest of their lives. I'd sub rdm or whm. Maybe monk... but i like phalanx $_$