I'm Annoyed By /NIN

[Malacite]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

o O chill out?

I don't see why some people hate WAR 1-37 so much when it's the strongest DD next to RNG.

[Pteryx]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

Ok after reading everyone's post I know why I really hate /NIN and am starting to dislike FFXI/MMOs. Everyone is saying," do what supports your party" etc. Ok first off this is a game, that you are suppose to enjoy. Meaning you are suppose to do what is fun for you. If a Certain job or /JOB is not fun to you then why the hell should you play it just to please the party? Thats dumb to me. Also, everyone is turning this into a RDM topic, that is not the issue, I have already realized that RDM is not for me.

What I am trying to get at, is this is a game, games are meant to be fun, some of you. (not all of you) have said to me you should level everything to 37 and SUB that whenever the party asks for it. 1) What if your far away from a MH when somebody invites you into a party? 2) Why should you have to stick threw 37 levels a job that you hate, just to make people in the party happy? Shouldn't games, and MMOs in general be fun? Why would you stick threw a job that bores you and that you hate just to please..a few people in a party? That just don't make sense to me!

This is the main reason why I dont want to do /NIN I didn't like /NIN then and I dont like it now, so why stick threw it just to make people happy?
(I also noticed I am repeating myself because SOME of you seem to keep missing my point.)

I've come to the conclusion that "game" is a decided misnomer for MMOs. They're more of a self-contained online hobby than anything resembling a true game. Under this perspective, it not being 100% fun 100% of the time, and it involving more work than play, make a heck of a lot more sense.

Its like a job in real life, I wouldn't apply for a certain position get that position then do something that is not even in that same position. I would quit that job because why the hell am I doing something that is not even my job? Why would I do someones else is job just to please the boss? I wouldn't! Same goes for FFXI and MMOs.

Except who decides what your job is, you or your boss? -- Pteryx

[Electricity Gone Human]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

o O chill out?

I don't see why some people hate WAR 1-37 so much when it's the strongest DD next to RNG.

That was meant to come off as a sort of a joke, Malacite.

But I really did find WAR boring to level, especially when people would seek out WARs as a second-rate tank in the late 30's to mid-levels.

[LadyKiKi]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

If you're starting to dislike FFXI/MMOs, best to quit now really. Later on it'll be just that much more pressure.

But, such as the nature of an activity/game where it involves teamwork and other people. It may be a game, but it's not a single player game. Freedom is reduced in environments where you're expected to do certain things. It's almost like you're saying you rather use your feet to play Basketball than to use hands (the "ball" being the game, likewise, "FFXI" is the game).

People expect you to be flexible.

3 choices left for you:

Quit.

Find an alternative way to play (i.e. Solo)

Make static friends so you can create an environment where you're free to do whatever you like.

...

I'm not missing your points. But in this game it is not all about "you".

[TheGrandMom]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

Ok after reading everyone's post I know why I really hate /NIN and am starting to dislike FFXI/MMOs. Everyone is saying," do what supports your party" etc. Ok first off this is a game, that you are suppose to enjoy. Meaning you are suppose to do what is fun for you. If a Certain job or /JOB is not fun to you then why the hell should you play it just to please the party? Thats dumb to me. Also, everyone is turning this into a RDM topic, that is not the issue, I have already realized that RDM is not for me.

What I am trying to get at, is this is a game, games are meant to be fun, some of you. (not all of you) have said to me you should level everything to 37 and SUB that whenever the party asks for it. 1) What if your far away from a MH when somebody invites you into a party? 2) Why should you have to stick threw 37 levels a job that you hate, just to make people in the party happy? Shouldn't games, and MMOs in general be fun? Why would you stick threw a job that bores you and that you hate just to please..a few people in a party? That just don't make sense to me!

This is the main reason why I dont want to do /NIN I didn't like /NIN then and I dont like it now, so why stick threw it just to make people happy?
(I also noticed I am repeating myself because SOME of you seem to keep missing my point.)

Its like a job in real life, I wouldn't apply for a certain position get that position then do something that is not even in that same position. I would quit that job because why the hell am I doing something that is not even my job? Why would I do someones else is job just to please the boss? I wouldn't! Same goes for FFXI and MMOs.

The issue with a MMO is that you are not just playing with NPC's, like in a console RPG, you are playing with living breathing people that have desires, opinions, aspirations, and pay to play just like everyone else. Now you have to deal with a slew of different personalities and opinions that might not even come close to what you feel or think. Your choices are to buck the system and do it your way while taking a lot of flack for it or to cave to the majority and do it the safe tested way. There are pluses and minuses to each way and you'll just have to take the good with the bad. If you are set on doing it your way then the best advice is to surround yourself with like minded people. Form an ls that bucks tradition and if you get a big enough one going you'll be able to make parties and do things your way with like minded people.

We all pay to play, and a lot like real life, the majority rules. People want the fastest way to do something with as little of effort as possible in the least amount of time....and that is fun to them. This leads to set parameters in order to accomplish the goal. Many times the "fun" is the end result but getting there is not fun at all. Kind of like eating ramen for 6 months because you are saving money to buy a PS3/360. Six months of that crap day in and day out is definately not fun but when you finally have that next gen console in your hands with a sweet game....it makes all the grind worth it.

Just because someone's idea of fun isn't the same as yours doesn't mean its not fun for them. We are all different and have different goals. Surround yourself with people who's outlook is like yours and make the game as fun for you as you can.

[Pteryx]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

People expect you to be flexible.

This is the one point I don't agree with, and is arguably the problem at hand. People don't expect you to be "flexible". They expect you to adhere to rigid outside standards. Sometimes the wrong ones for the situation. -- Pteryx

[LadyKiKi]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

This is the one point I don't agree with, and is arguably the problem at hand. People don't expect you to be "flexible". They expect you to adhere to rigid outside standards. Sometimes the wrong ones for the situation. -- Pteryx

Ooops. Yes that was what I meant, I guess flexible wasn't the best term to use.

What can I say? This happens everywhere.

[Lunaryn]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

Bluecat has a point, even though it's not very well put.

I work in what could be termed a large small company (non-profit). We have a variety of divisions but few enough people that some flexibility is always going to be needed. I'm part of the IT department, brought on to handle miscellaneous projects. I do various IT and programming work in support of various software programs used by the company.

Nominally, something like data entry would be outside my job description. We have other people responsible for this. One time, however, after a major site-wide software upgrade, there was some early morning confusion over the new system, and a couple people ended up working in the test database instead of the production database. This included a data entry person putting an entire shift's worth of time sheets into the test database instead of the production database. Given the nature of the front-end software, we were unable to migrate the records over in any automated way, so we had to manually reenter time sheets, and I was tasked with assisting with this since I was the most familiar with the new system.

In this case, emergency data entry for a couple hours fell vaguely within the purview of my job description, in that my primary duty for that week was to see that everyone got up and running on the new system smoothly. It wasn't an unreasonable expectation in that context.

On the other hand, if I were arbitrarily pulled off of my current project and put on data entry because a data entry person was out sick, that would be outside my job description, and such a thing being a regular occurrence would be grounds to consider seeking new employment.

Ultimately, the problem with most support-capable jobs in FFXI is not that parties demand flexibility. It's that by and large they always demand you provide a particular limited subset of your job's (or subjob's) capabilities, and that particular subset is often not what you signed up for. Worse still, those who survive this kind of treatment often don't learn how to do anything else, meaning that party leaders who would like flexibility often feel they can't count on said jobs to provide anything more than what the average party has ended up expecting from them.

[Malacite]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

For example, lately I've had the pleasure of being able to melee in all my parties from 20-30 as a RDM and as such I have been subbing COR.

At first glance people go but then they are when I start boosting all our accuracy astronomically with Hunter's Roll.


Thinking outside the box can be a good thing.

[Karinya]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

This is exactly why I steer people away from THF now. It's not a matter of what this update did or didn't do or the effectiveness of new equipment or JAs. It's the fact that what we as thieves DO has become obsolete in the new order. Our spike damage abilities are pretty pathetic compared to what any serious DD can do. Debuffs aren't valued enough for THF/RNG to have an xp party role in most people's minds (and we don't do that any better than a crossbow RNG would). There are plenty of other choices for pullers. Our signature ability is hate control. I can't remember the last xp party where hate control mattered at all to anyone. Huge SATA Distortion spike damage still looks sexy when it's not resisted, but unless you static with a SAM or NIN who's willing to open for you, don't expect to see many.

I steer people away from PLD for the same reason: it's the best in the game at doing something that nobody wants done anymore.

/NIN has a lot to do with the decline of both THF and PLD, IMO. It gives a huge reward to having hate bounce around from player to player.


P.S. I agree that imps and colibri would be terrible targets for manaburns, but if that was what SE had in mind, surely they've had plenty of time to realize how badly melee-heavy parties tear them up? 20% or even 10% more HP for those two mob families would be a step in the right direction (so would making besieged harder, so the Empire loses the AC more than once a month; having monsters auto-retreat after a certain amount of time was a terrible idea IMO). The risk/reward of a pierce-heavy party fighting those gimped (except against blms) monster families is just ridiculous and has been for a couple of years now.

[Telera]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

...GODDAMN, I HATED LEVELING WAR TO SUBJOB LEVEL!

So did I.

This sums up my most prominent thread of thought through the slowest 37 levels of my life.

Well, I take that back, I did enjoy it for 30 seconds once. I did a Sturmwind that apparently had been blessed by the gods, because it did more damage than any before or after in my short WAR career, and half the party was all 'o.O'.

I kind of giggled then, but other than that, see above.

Ultimately, the problem with most support-capable jobs in FFXI is not that parties demand flexibility. It's that by and large they always demand you provide a particular limited subset of your job's (or subjob's) capabilities, and that particular subset is often not what you signed up for. Worse still, those who survive this kind of treatment often don't learn how to do anything else, meaning that party leaders who would like flexibility often feel they can't count on said jobs to provide anything more than what the average party has ended up expecting from them.

And this is the most sensible thing I've seen in a while.

I never minded being main heal on summoner, but I felt that I wasn't getting any real experience on being anything else. I felt as though I wasn't having a chance to learn -in a party setting- the best way to utilize the main aspect of my job. I mean sure, it's not that complicated, but it's always nice to have plenty of time/levels/parties in which to learn some tricks, what works best for certain set ups/how to make up for the slack of someone else, etc.

And then that usually backfires in an endless cycle, as you said, as party leaders who try to utilize some other aspects of a job can't find people who perform well at it, simply because no one else ever let them have the time to work at it in a party. And so you get stuck, (save for perhaps in things like Sky, which even if I had stayed in game and hit 75, I was never going to participate in) doing the same old, same old.

[Sevv]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

I steer people away from PLD for the same reason: it's the best in the game at doing something that nobody wants done anymore.

/NIN has a lot to do with the decline of both THF and PLD, IMO. It gives a huge reward to having hate bounce around from player to player.


P.S. I agree that imps and colibri would be terrible targets for manaburns, but if that was what SE had in mind, surely they've had plenty of time to realize how badly melee-heavy parties tear them up? 20% or even 10% more HP for those two mob families would be a step in the right direction (so would making besieged harder, so the Empire loses the AC more than once a month; having monsters auto-retreat after a certain amount of time was a terrible idea IMO). The risk/reward of a pierce-heavy party fighting those gimped (except against blms) monster families is just ridiculous and has been for a couple of years now.

Do you do endgame lol?

[Vyuru]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

Meh, I guess I always got lucky when I tell my Summoners to go wild and just backup cure as needed, I've seen them do some crazy stuff when given the opportunity.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

I've come to the conclusion that "game" is a decided misnomer for MMOs. They're more of a self-contained online hobby than anything resembling a true game. Under this perspective, it not being 100% fun 100% of the time, and it involving more work than play, make a heck of a lot more sense.

That's been said about video game RPGs in general, whether it's online multi-player or offline single player.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

The risk/reward of a pierce-heavy party fighting those gimped (except against blms) monster families is just ridiculous and has been for a couple of years now.

And years before that, the mobs we favored crabs, which were somewhat resistant to most damage types and favored targets because they were easy to tank and not terribly magic resistant, though they required dispellers.

And guess what - Warrior, Dragoon, Monk, Thief and a lot of melees were shit out of luck for a party invite because tanks and mages were too scared to fight anything else but a crab. DD slot in PT was usually two members tops. Three slots for mages and one for tank.

Unless SE comes up a better balancing of risk/reward with mobs, people will conform to the path that is easiest to them. The jobs that got big heads back in RoZ/CoP are now the ones not getting invited or are no longer invited for thier specialization.