I'm Annoyed By /NIN

[assumedvigilance]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

If you're tanking the mob so often that you find that it's hard to keep your shadows up and pay attention Chakra/Dodge recast timers, then that's all the more reason to sub NIN. Just imagine what it would be like with /WAR in that situation. Not only are you pulling more hate through the extra damage from Berserk, Double Attack and Attack Bonus, but you have nothing to mitigate that damage you are now taking without Utsusemi.

i understand your point more then you seem to think. doesn't mean i have to like it.

Though I don't see why you have to watch your JA timers so closely. You can basically just make one macro to fire off any of your JAs that have a timer longer than a minute, and hit it at the start of every fight.

Macros make me feel like a bystander, not a member of the party. and yes i do use macros. i like the feel of controling my character though. so tend to surf the menus, its not a have to type thing. just my preference.

Hopefully you aren't watching Boost so closely that you're firing it off every 15 seconds. That does more to generate enmity than it does to actually increase your damage output.

boost before ws only thanks.

Yeah, like being a MNK requires so much work that you are "earning your xp". There's a reason why MNK is the butt of most auto-attack and just watch TV jokes.

If anything, having to pay attention to shadows (which isn't that hard if you're not trying to be full time blink tank) brings you as a DD closer to having to work as much as the tank, healer, support, and puller (which I contend has to be the hardest working pt member).

was a joke poking fun at them not dissing them. goodness ppl need to lighten up. my girls a whm my best friend is a rdm, and i have been known to step into a tanking job from time to time. both nin and pld. i know how hard they work... and pullers are sissies

[Telera]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

>.< this isnt a smn or rdm thread....

It's not a monk thread either. Please hold while I attempt to baaaaw. ..Okay, not working. Used to minor derails. Sometimes things take slight detours. For the love of Yevon stop trying to backseat mod, it's getting annoying. Four posts about Summoner? OHNOES. Compared to a long thing about monk now? OHNOES AGAIN. Reality: The RDM, SMN, and MNK tangent are still related to the topic at hand in some way. And since when does anything on FFXIO ever stay un-derailed?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

Didn't I debunk this once already on this very same thread? There were lots of non-crab camps in regular use - VoS, Kuftal depths, moongate to name only a few.

Most NINs and PLD would refuse to do Rocs in VoS without it being an Arrowburn. NO ONE ever wanted to do Kuftal Wyverns, Tigers or Cockatrice because of status spam. Ro'Maeve people seldom went to unless there was no other choice, same as the bowels of Kuftal.

Crabs were favored targets *in the 50s* primarily because of overhunting. Overhunting a crab leads to a slow frustrating fight that isn't really worth it in exp/hr terms. Overhunting a scorpion will probably kill someone, maybe the whole party. There's something about the way player and mob abilities grow with level that made the 50s particularly vulnerable to this, so unless you were lucky enough to have a static with the brains to go to KRT instead, crabs were just plain safer to fight with players of unknown skill.

God the words you like to make up.

It wasn't "overhunting." Crabs attacked slowly and were less accurate and less powerful than most mobs 50+, that is why they were favored - they didn't beat the shit out of a tank.

Fighting *appropriate* level scorpions with a *competent party* is better exp than fighting crabs of any level, but if you don't trust your tank or you're in a camp that's too high level for you, dangerous mobs are dangerous.

No one fought scorpions, even with a competent PT.

If by mages you include bard, yeah (cor not existing back then). Fighting crabs without a blm is just dumb. But it wasn't the tanks (IMX) who were afraid of mobs with attack - it was the DDs (including blms) that couldn't control their hate and could get one-shotted by anything more dangerous than Big Scissors. That, and people who obsessed about downtime without realizing that long fights are just as destructive to your overall exp/hr.

If I suggested a NIN fight a Roc in a non-arrowburn back then, they would shit a brick over it. Same with a PLD. RDMs would shit a brick if they were asked to main heal anything that contantly needed nuking or was damage resitant. There was a reason for that.

I'd much rather compete for 2 party slots (not counting the blm slot, even though blm is also a DD) than compete for 0 party slots (that's how many slots there are for dedicated tanks in a modern party, or for nukers). And I'm surprised you'd mention thief given how much *more* screwed they are today. They're a gimpy vanilla DD instead of the masters of SC closing and hate control they were designed to be.

Yet more of them get to 75 today than they ever did when they were these proclaimed masters of hate control. Gee, can't imagine why. Coudln't be there was more room for DDs in PTs these days.

There was a tremendous glut of players who just wanted to hit things and wouldn't play any other sort of job no matter what was actually needed. Some of them have left, some of them have branched out and some are still around meleeburning colibri every night, but the population pressure of too many DD players was created by the players, not by SE. Traditional parties had some room for any type of job. If there had been a huge glut of people who wanted to play healers do you think SE should have created healburn parties? Demographics are no excuse for screwing up balance (let alone making party coordination and teamwork unnecessary or actually counterproductive - the SC/MB dynamic actually distinguished FFXI from other MMOs where people just stood around and whaled on the same mob until it died and that was considered teamwork. Now FFXI *is* one of those games.)

You really think SE intended ToA to be melee paradice? I seriously doubt it. It was more like they made some mistakes in mob placement and realized it was too far gone to go back and change it without doing damage to the faith of players.

Nonetheless, my point remains - players will always find a mob to exploit. I have no love for how exclusive PT setups were in RoZ/CoP. You can't force someone to like a job that doesn't fit thier personality. Most people want to take part in melee in some fashion and SE has even gone so far to make jobs such as COR and DNC supportive and melee-capable. They've made mage jobs like BLU and SCH more active and interesting in thier casting roles. If SE is trying to get players to branch out, in this regard, they're succeeding.

Personally, I think the problem lies within the RoZ/ToA team, which aren't the same people behind FFXI/CoP/WotG team. RoZ/ToA overshoots on everything. RoZ mobs and camps have mobs too accurate, evasive and damaging. ToA mobs are the direct opposite. Can't really say many of the FFXI/CoP/WotG overkill in this way. Even with its few "burn" camps, the mobs aren't dramatically difficult wimpy ones.

Anyway, I think its rather unfair to make an MMORPG so rigid that your job cannot possibly get to 75. Did you happen to get your DRG to 75 pre-ToA? I highly doubt it. I got DRG to 60 pre-ToA and getting invites was like waiting for scraps from the table, if you didn't get a PT early in US primetime, you didn't get one and if you built one, people would vacate the moment they saw something better.

PLDs like to bemoan their plight in this era, but they still get to 75 somehow, its just 72+ they seem to really slow down. I've played BST from early CoP to present - we've gotten updates, but has the invite situation improved at all?

Nope.

Not often invited to PTs.
Not invited to merits.
People don't respect my solo camps.
And I'm not welcome at any endgame events.

Does PLD have any of those problems? I still love BST still level it and shrug off these issues, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend the aren't problems. They totally are.

I'm not trying to trivialize PLD's situation, just putting it in perspective for you. PLDs don't have it as bad as they make it out to be.

Shit, just look at any pet job - they're practically shunned at endgame now. I even know of LSes that don't want people bringing SMN to events, for christ's sake. And it doesn't seem to change no matter how much SE buffs the pet jobs. They need to find whatever is making people shun these jobs and nip it in the bud.

None of any of this has much to do with /NIN anymore, but eh, topics like this tend to end up like that.

[Bluecat]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

ok I am going to be very short here lol I am in a good mood so I am not going to yell xD.

1) People think /NIN is like the only good subjob anymore.
2) I only said I hated FFXI because I was so mad.
3) One of the main reason's a lot of shit in this "game" is pissing me off is because everyone wants everyone to do what is outside of the there job description. Seriously RDM and SMN (sometimes) can do more then just heal. RDM has a lot of spells that are over used in this game, and has a lot more to offer, and yet are even waisted. I don't really even see the point of having RDM in this game anymore. just give WHM <Refresh> etc..and you have the perfect healer.

4) ok I am going to bitch a little bit now, some of you said this really isn't a "game" its like life you have to deal and use whatever the party wants at that time. First of all, I am not going to sacrifise my fun just to make other people happy. I know this is not a normal game wear you can make the NPCs do whatever you want. But seriously there has to be some comprimise you cant just demand someone to do something and espect them to do it. If you do you are just dumb. I am not going to sit here and be like...HEAL....HEAL...HEAL just because they want a damn healer, find a fricken WHM. If not just wait!

5) Ok this is funny though, I went RDM/BLM in Qufim Island yesterday, the dude wanted me to be /WHM I didn't have /WHM leveled at all really. I said I would just use +MND items so I did. Anyway, when I got to the camp they had a WHM, she had all +MND items like me, and they were even better then mine. The funny part is, even though I was /BLM and had less MND then her, I healed more MP with Cure II then her Cure III did. Just thought that I should share that with you.

Quote of the day: "MMOs are like a job, the party is your boss, they tell you what to do and don't stop bitching at you and make you want to quit."

[TheGrandMom]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

I am not going to sacrifise my fun just to make other people happy.

And I'm not going to sacrifice my fun just for yours either. My fun is to have people do what needs to be done in a party so that we can get max efficiency. If your fun gets in the way of that then /kick. The perfect way to not be in this type of situation is to not accept parties where you have to main heal. If you complain about backup healinig in a party as a rdm, then you just need to quit leveling any job with cure.

...you cant just demand someone to do something and espect them to do it. If you do you are just dumb.

If I am the party leader, damn straight I can. And no I'm not dumb, I'm rather intelligent thank you very much. I never "demand", I ask. Demanding is rude but if I ask and you whine then I /kick. A party is a team (and yes I am now going to use that annoying saying but...). There is no I in team. You do what needs to be done for the team to be successful or GTFO.

Anyway, when I got to the camp they had a WHM, she had all +MND items like me, and they were even better then mine. The funny part is, even though I was /BLM and had less MND then her, I healed more MP with Cure II then her Cure III did.

Highly unlikely that a whm's cure 3 is less than a rdms cure 2. I'm sure someone will post with an equation or such and prove the point. LOL

[Raitox]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

1.) False. It's usually just more efficient for many jobs, and very useful in burn parties.

2.)Yup.

3.)RDM does more than just heal -- They sometimes switch it up with Haste and Refresh, you know, the occasional Dia, slow, blind, paralyze -- oh wait, did i list cure? I don't think so.

4.)You can play however the hell you want. Just be expected to be kicked.

5.) Healing MP at Qufim? What?

[Kailea]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

Bluecat you have not been around as long as some of us have, all job classes have a job to do, but alot of the time that job is stretched, it is a thing that happens all the time, and is normal.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

i understand your point more then you seem to think. doesn't mean i have to like it.

Then just say you don't like because you don't like it. You don't have to provide support for your subjective preferences. Just don't make silly statements like "/NIN makes playing too hard" or "healers and tanks need to work harder anyway". Just be honest and say, "I want to play with a subjob that maximizes my damage output, and I want to play in a party setup that lets me do so."

[TheGrandMom]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

Just be honest and say, "I want to play with a subjob that maximizes my damage output, and I want to play in a party setup that lets me do so."

AMEN

[Bluecat]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

And I'm not going to sacrifice my fun just for yours either. My fun is to have people do what needs to be done in a party so that we can get max efficiency. If your fun gets in the way of that then /kick. The perfect way to not be in this type of situation is to not accept parties where you have to main heal. If you complain about backup healinig in a party as a rdm, then you just need to quit leveling any job with cure.



If I am the party leader, damn straight I can. And no I'm not dumb, I'm rather intelligent thank you very much. I never "demand", I ask. Demanding is rude but if I ask and you whine then I /kick. A party is a team (and yes I am now going to use that annoying saying but...). There is no I in team. You do what needs to be done for the team to be successful or GTFO.



Highly unlikely that a whm's cure 3 is less than a rdms cure 2. I'm sure someone will post with an equation or such and prove the point. LOL

I never said you had to sacrfice anything either, this game should be fun for every single person that plays it. Asking is one thing, but there should also be compromises as well. Also I hate curing its very very boring, and for the last time RDM can do other things basides fucking heal, other wise why the hell would it know BLM or use a fricken sword for? Just for looks? I THINK NOT! Also, just because you are the party leader doesn't make you right in any sense. I have pted with a leader who only wanted mages in the pt..and no tanks. Lets just say we all died, that was a stupid thing to do. I am not saying you are dumb but some of the people that play this game are.

oh and for the record I played this game back in 2002-2005 so I have played quite a awhile myself thank you very much. I just came back after 3 years of being gone. (like none of you have done that before.)

Also my point that nobody has been seeming to understand is, there are a lot of jobs in this game that are not used the way they are meant to be RDM being one of them it is if not the most under rated job in the whole game. I just hated /NIN for a few days because for like a week thats all I saw was /NIN and hear /NIN this /NIN that I got annoyed with it so I thought I should write about it. Now I really dont care about /NIN its whatever to me right now.

[Raitox]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

Your highest job level being 25, one could imagine not having a very smart party leader...

[Luna]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

hmmm =) I agree with the lot of you, this game is not centered around what you personally feel when it comes to what would benefit your party/alliance the most. This game is based on teamwork and if you cant go /NIN just b/c you dont like it being overly popular or b/c you think there are other sub jobs that are better, then you should not be playing this game. Sure there are better support jobs in other situations but if it calls for /NIN then that is your BEST option at the moment no one cares if you dont like that job, its whats better for the whole not for yourself only. Easiest way to solve your /NIN problem is to play a job that does not require it I.E. SCH,SMN,WHM,NIN (lol)

[Kailea]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

I never said you had to sacrfice anything either, this game should be fun for every single person that plays it. Asking is one thing, but there should also be compromises as well. Also I hate curing its very very boring, and for the last time RDM can do other things basides fucking heal, other wise why the hell would it know BLM or use a fricken sword for? Just for looks? I THINK NOT! Also, just because you are the party leader doesn't make you right in any sense. I have pted with a leader who only wanted mages in the pt..and no tanks. Lets just say we all died, that was a stupid thing to do. I am not saying you are dumb but some of the people that play this game are.

oh and for the record I played this game back in 2002-2005 so I have played quite a awhile myself thank you very much. I just came back after 3 years of being gone. (like none of you have done that before.)

Also my point that nobody has been seeming to understand is, there are a lot of jobs in this game that are not used the way they are meant to be RDM being one of them it is if not the most under rated job in the whole game. I just hated /NIN for a few days because for like a week thats all I saw was /NIN and hear /NIN this /NIN that I got annoyed with it so I thought I should write about it. Now I really dont care about /NIN its whatever to me right now.

you seem to be fickle with what bothers you, honestly you dont seem to understand that RDM along with any other job with MP, is going to heal if need be, you dont like healing? fine go level a job where you know you dont have to heal ever. ......oh yes and at 40, you will become a refresh bot, its what RDM does -.-

[TheGrandMom]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

I never said you had to sacrfice anything either, this game should be fun for every single person that plays it.

My fun is having an efficient party and you are saying that I should sacrifice my fun to accomadate your fun. So please don't say you aren't, because you are. I do not want to try something new, something new to me is not fun, so don't expect me to sacrifice my fun for you.

Also I hate curing its very very boring, ...

So, are you saying that as a rdm you refuse to even backup heal?

Also, just because you are the party leader doesn't make you right in any sense.

It does in my party, so if someone doesn't like it then they can go elsewhere. LOL

EDIT:

......oh yes and at 40, you will become a refresh bot, its what RDM does -.-

/highfive Kailea

I joke with a summoner friend and call his mp crack so he calls me a crack whore. If you refuse to refresh, please let me know because I will either make a character on your server or change servers just so that I can go up to you and point and laugh until they temp ban me. LOL

[Luna]

Re: I'm Annoyed By /NIN

I never said you had to sacrfice anything either, this game should be fun for every single person that plays it. Asking is one thing, but there should also be compromises as well. Also I hate curing its very very boring, and for the last time RDM can do other things basides fucking heal, other wise why the hell would it know BLM or use a fricken sword for? Just for looks? I THINK NOT! Also, just because you are the party leader doesn't make you right in any sense. I have pted with a leader who only wanted mages in the pt..and no tanks. Lets just say we all died, that was a stupid thing to do. I am not saying you are dumb but some of the people that play this game are.

What is your point here? you dont like healing? then dont play RDM you are right rdm can do other things, but just like you said if you arnt meant to melee then why have a sword? if you arnt meant to cure then why have cures? It is not that RDM cant melee its what is best for the party and 9/10 the party needs a healer / enfeebling mage.

oh and for the record I played this game back in 2002-2005 so I have played quite a awhile myself thank you very much. I just came back after 3 years of being gone. (like none of you have done that before.)

yeah u took a 3 year break huh? you played back in 2002-2005? well then you should know what we are talking about instead of running around complaining about things that are not going to get you anywhere, like I have stressed before this game is not about YOU its about EVERYONE. Sure there are people who wish to play the game the way they want that is fine and dandy but when you come on a forum and start posting about how you dont like how certain jobs are played, so then dont play them that way but dont expect anyone to invite you to do anything other than EXP if thats what you like doing then go for it.

Also my point that nobody has been seeming to understand is, there are a lot of jobs in this game that are not used the way they are meant to be RDM being one of them it is if not the most under rated job in the whole game. I just hated /NIN for a few days because for like a week thats all I saw was /NIN and hear /NIN this /NIN that I got annoyed with it so I thought I should write about it. Now I really dont care about /NIN its whatever to me right now.

Hmmmm yeah I agree with Kailea you seem pretty fickle, you also seem to know nothing of what your talking about.