Ninja, only for tanking?

[Malacite]

Re: Ninja, only for tanking?

NIN/BLM is capable of some pretty sick stuff 51+


You need all the MAB and INT (in that order) that you can pile on, along with elemental staves (HQ preferably to get the most out of your girl)


Unfortunately this combo will cost a fortune per tool set. Not many do it, but it's power is insane.

[XNihili]

Re: Ninja, only for tanking?

If it's about DD :
at lower level, your katanas are hitting for craps. Hell they still did in the 50s even with a bunch of +attack gear. I think it's only slightly better than THF so it's really bad as NIN don't have huge spike damage like THF.
So if you reall you want to DD before 40, the only choice is to use Shuriken. Or tank. Or Leech XP. Your choice.
In the 40's (til middle/end 50's, a bit more if you are not going on the Colibri route as they are highly magic resistant) you can be top DD and tank at the same time, thanks to the elemental wheel. It may be a bit expensive but you can take down a VT link all by yourself.
Afterward, the elemental wheel are fading and damage is still not very good until it starts to pick up at 58 with the AF body then Haubergeon, then Blade: Jin (not really good at the beginning), then Lv61 katanas and Amemet Mantle and then Bomb Core.
At that time your DD is doing on par with most DD but not breath taking yet.
I believe it really shines at higher level when you have access to a bunch of haste and dual wield+ equipments and even better katanas.

[Theyaden]

Re: Ninja, only for tanking?

A friend of mine was leveling ninja and wanted to avoid tanking due to cost of the blink tools. He made his own parties and invited a paladin straight off each time. He capped out his ninjitsu by spamming the elemental wheel not sure if he used stars or just a boomerang.
If I'm pt lead and I'm searching for paladin or ninja I'm looking for a tank. I read the search comments so I won't bother one that has /whm sub only (Yes I really ran across a pal/whm who had his search string that he wouldn't change it) or tanking no thanks in their search string. You'll find some people don't bother checking and will raise the issue of tanking after you arrive so there will be a few frustraiting moments if your getting picked up rather than making your own.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Ninja, only for tanking?

A friend of mine was leveling ninja and wanted to avoid tanking due to cost of the blink tools. He made his own parties and invited a paladin straight off each time. He capped out his ninjitsu by spamming the elemental wheel not sure if he used stars or just a boomerang.

I don't understand; how can anyone save on cost while spamming the wheel?

With the exception of pulling, using a boomerang is a complete waste of time in exp parties. The same goes for the Ichi level -ton Ninjutsu, unless it's done to lower resistance to specific enfeebs or skillchain. (MB with Ichi -ton is kinda OK.) I consider both pretty rude, to be honest.

A NIN who won't tank but isn't set up correctly as a DD (pretty much NIN/RNG with shuriken only, before Lv.40) is just a leech.

Oh, and shuriken isn't "star".

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Ninja, only for tanking?

I don't understand; how can anyone save on cost while spamming the wheel?

I'm guessing he didn't spam the entire wheel. Tsurara is pretty cheap, so you can probably spam Hyoton whenever it's ready, not spend too much gil, and still not be contributing all that much to the pt and successfully leeching exp.

[Shadowneko]

Re: Ninja, only for tanking?

People have touched on these but I'll go for the recap and some additions:

Nin/war A.K.A: Ninja Tank was an accidental discovery that is now the accepted standard. Personnaly I hate playing this way and I never want to play Ninja again because of this. Basicly you have a lighly armored class with only 3-7 recasting shadows for protection and odds are you'll miss the overlap, get "spell intrupted" a million times and be eating dirt before long.(ok my silly opinion of that application...heck I've even played healing mage to it and saw the same thing) Plus the Ninja job has next to no hate holding-ability...heck I could out Tank one as Warrrior and a good PLD will always trump a Ninja in the hate department!

People have already listed the stuff I consider to be fun ways to use Ninja...but rather expensive like Elemental debuffs/wheel(add a BLM in the party on lower lvls for fun debuffing), Shrikuiens, and swinging a couple of Katanas really fast. Those are Ninja DD traits and assists that were original to the job before all this death-tanking nonsence...

Then again I just hate Nin/war...which is not what eveyone else thinks....

[Amele]

Re: Ninja, only for tanking?

People have touched on these but I'll go for the recap and some additions:
Nin/war A.K.A: Ninja Tank was an accidental discovery that is now the accepted standard. Personnaly I hate playing this way and I never want to play Ninja again because of this. Basicly you have a lighly armored class with only 3-7 recasting shadows for protection and odds are you'll miss the overlap, get "spell intrupted" a million times and be eating dirt before long.(ok my silly opinion of that application...heck I've even played healing mage to it and saw the same thing) Plus the Ninja job has next to no hate holding-ability...heck I could out Tank one as Warrrior and a good PLD will always trump a Ninja in the hate department!
People have already listed the stuff I consider to be fun ways to use Ninja...but rather expensive like Elemental debuffs/wheel(add a BLM in the party on lower lvls for fun debuffing), Shrikuiens, and swinging a couple of Katanas really fast. Those are Ninja DD traits and assists that were original to the job before all this death-tanking nonsence...
Then again I just hate Nin/war...which is not what eveyone else thinks....

it wasn't accidental. and the armor isn't particularly light. and the job has A class evasion and parry. so I don't see why you think SE didn't have some tanking in mind.

sure SE didn't intend for ninja to be the tank (like pld), they've stated as much. but if you think they didn't plan on ninjas being hittable, well.. lol. look at the placement of utsusemi versus blink in terms of potency and recast time.

and the best sub for DD ninja is *still* warrior, unless you plan to wear elemental staves and san/ni wheel nuke.

[hongman]

Re: Ninja, only for tanking?

Well, have to disagree there.

While NIN was not designed to be a tank per se, it does the job rather well.

Talking about exp parties here, NIN can hold hate as well as PLD. Maybe requires more skill to do so, but they can.

Shadow counts are fine, NIN have high EVA. Getting interuppted is learning to time, just as a PLD has to time a Cure.

Nin/war has plenty of hate holding tools. Provoke, shadows (as in not getting hit, means you dont shed hate as quick), Ninjutsu...

Yes, comes at a cost, but Nin can tank just as fine as a PLD. Some scenarios cater better to either one.

[XNihili]

Re: Ninja, only for tanking?

Ninja were not supposed to tank but SE did change afterward giving a bunch of +enmity and -dmg% equipments.
Ninja tanking are much more dependant on party members than PLD, they really need haste, debuff and that other DD don't jump the guns right of the bat.
But it can be done and done nicely. It requires skills and is less forgiving than with PLD (and expensive) but it's kinda fun. Well, at least after Utsusemi: Ni.
Tanking alone with Utsusemi: Ichi only a few evasion gear against Mandragora is kinda meh.

[hongman]

Re: Ninja, only for tanking?

Yes I agree. But even PLD's at that lvl had crappy DEF anyway and not much better off (all things considered)

Again, its scenarios for a better tank. Hard, but slow hitting mobs is most efficient for NIN, wheras MNK mobs obliterate shadows. And vice versa for PLD.

[Omni]

Re: Ninja, only for tanking?

I wouldnt say its much more dependent on pt members than a pld. If a pld runs out of mp because he doesnt get refresh, he's no better than any other melee. There are times where I've had half my pt members wipe and I've been able to solo the mob long enough for others to get up and spot heal.

I actually think this is where nin excels. their tools are limitless while a pld is dependent on his mp.

Also, I dont think it matters pld or nin when it comes to heavy hitting DD. any dd jumping the gun will make it difficult for any type of tank.

[Amele]

Re: Ninja, only for tanking?

Ninja were not supposed to tank but SE did change afterward giving a bunch of +enmity and -dmg% equipments.
Ninja tanking are much more dependant on party members than PLD, they really need haste, debuff and that other DD don't jump the guns right of the bat.
But it can be done and done nicely. It requires skills and is less forgiving than with PLD (and expensive) but it's kinda fun. Well, at least after Utsusemi: Ni.
Tanking alone with Utsusemi: Ichi only a few evasion gear against Mandragora is kinda meh.

arhat's has been in the game for a very long time. (+enmity -dmg% equipment). if you mean ninja specific gear, then yes.

if you mean that ninja has gone on more general tanking gear going forward than their initial gear list might've indicated, then yes.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Ninja, only for tanking?

any dd jumping the gun will make it difficult for any type of tank.

And then they blame us for them spamming..

I swear. I'm only level 50, but some ppl think we can spam WSs like we're 75. -_-

[XNihili]

Re: Ninja, only for tanking?

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