Ninja, only for tanking?

[ioshua]

Due to an unfortunate and unrecoverable 2004 era character wipe, I'm starting from scratch. This time, I'm taking a different route (was all support crazy before) and looking at my options. While not intentional, Ninja seems to be a great tank. I never had the chance to group with one before but all I hear is good.

Is that all they're there for now?

I was fine with the idea of adding a no-tank rider to my LFG notes but read that, if I want to put my all into DD, I'll end up tanking on pure damage output. And not in a good way. The abilities look spot on for a melee dps + debuff class with ranged options. Is it possible to get away with playing a Nin as anything but a tank?

To avoid a huge time investment ending in heartache, could I get the good word from those who have come before?

[Guren]

Re: Ninja, only for tanking?

Ninja / Ranger is by far one of the best DD I ever seen in my life. But, extremely expensive. With Ung. Boomerang and stacks on stacks of ninja stars your damage output is amazing.

[Zempten]

Re: Ninja, only for tanking?

Possibility to play a NIN as not a tank? Yes, in situations where there is a PLD in your PT or if there is another NIN in your PT. This is the beauty of playing NIN though. You can play a DD role or a Tank role however honestly speaking. . . . 80% of your invites will be with you being a tank. Wether you want to tank as a DD or not is completely up to you. You'll have to make that choice on your own but just realize it CAN be done in most situations.

NIN's can DD just fine through regular meeles (in most of the pickup PTs I'm in the NIN usually parses around 20% to 28% of the DMG done by the PT) so you don't HAVE to do the /RNG route. However .. . it's fun every now and then but I wouldn't suggest doing it 24 7 for financial reasons.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Ninja, only for tanking?

Ninja / Ranger is by far one of the best DD I ever seen in my life. But, extremely expensive. With Ung. Boomerang and stacks on stacks of ninja stars your damage output is amazing.

Er... Can you equip boomerang and "ninja star"* at the same time?

That said, with capped throwing skills, level appropriate shurikens can do a lot of damage coming from NIN/RNG--just need to toss away stacks and stacks of those expensive tools.

* It's not "ninja star"; those things are actually called "shuriken", meaning something like "blade hidden in hand". The Lv.18 Shuriken is a boushuriken, and is basically a metal spike with threaded grip--it's not shaped like a star at all.

Between Lv.40-60 or so, NIN/BLM (or NIN/RDM Lv.40-50) can do heck of whole lot of damage using the Ni level elemental (-ton) Ninjutsu, using a technique commonly know nas the "Ninjutsu wheel."

Again, this burns through Gil (even more tools!) fast, and need INT and later MAB equipment to truly hit the peak potential.

[Celeal]

Re: Ninja, only for tanking?

As NIN level goes up and Dual Wield's weapon delay reduction goes up (like DW IV - weapon delay reduction 30% at level 65), it make sense to focus on Katana at the end. In terms of overall DoT:
Level 18 ~ 40: Shurikens > Katana (High base dmg from Shurikens)
Level 40 ~ 60: Elemental Wheel > Shuriken > Katana (The Wheel can be speeded up by Haste, range attack doesn't)
Level 60+: Katana

Plus, spam Shuriken or Elemental Wheel is like spam gil at the mob, but Katana is swing for free.

[Guren]

Re: Ninja, only for tanking?

Er... Can you equip boomerang and "ninja star"* at the same time?

That said, with capped throwing skills, level appropriate shurikens can do a lot of damage coming from NIN/RNG--just need to toss away stacks and stacks of those expensive tools.

* It's not "ninja star"; those things are actually called "shuriken", meaning something like "blade hidden in hand". The Lv.18 Shuriken is a boushuriken, and is basically a metal spike with threaded grip--it's not shaped like a star at all.

Between Lv.40-60 or so, NIN/BLM (or NIN/RDM Lv.40-50) can do heck of whole lot of damage using the Ni level elemental (-ton) Ninjutsu, using a technique commonly know nas the "Ninjutsu wheel."

Again, this burns through Gil (even more tools!) fast, and need INT and later MAB equipment to truly hit the peak potential.

Wasn't say at same time. Just saying, the stars (I call them stars for easier way of saying shuriken and boushurikin every single time) the stars are expensive and if you are in a long time party you will run out eventually. The boomerang can help a lot in those situations.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Ninja, only for tanking?

EVA Tanking setup ftw.

Ask Omni about it. He's all about being as gimp as possible at any given moment :-D

As a NIN/WAR, versatility is as simply as macroing the right gear. However, anything other than just straight tanking requires a lot of investments such as time, money and patience. Oh, and macros. NIN is one of the few jobs that is both gear and skill driven. Most melee jobs (read: all) is about the gear. NIN don't have that luxury.

Versatility to NIN is similar to RDMs in that it depends on your sub. NIN/BLM and NIN/RNG have been touched on, but for the most part, expect to fulfill a cookie-cutter role most of the time. If a pt leader types in "/sea all (level) NIN invite", chances are they're not looking for a DD. Or a Nuker.

Bring enough gear, gauge your own abilities. You might find out that with a higher damage output, you can rely on Shadows and Haste to tank.

[hongman]

Re: Ninja, only for tanking?

80%? Id say more like 95% you will be expected and invited to tank. And a fair chunk of those will say "see you later alligator" when you tell them you are DD only, becuase
1. Tanks are generally speaking not as readily available as DD and
2. A lot of people think NIN cant DD, especially at lower levels
3. They can invite a DRK or WAR or something that is a "safer bet".

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Ninja, only for tanking?

NIN DD is "meh" until Jin.

No amount of STR/Attack gear is going to put you on par until NIN start breaking the TP floor, spamming Critical Boosted WSs and start going batshit crazy with Their broken DW bonuses.

Katanas just don't have the base damage until the 60s. Of course, you'll need decent attack to keep hate though. But don't expect to be a "DD" in the sense of the word until later.

Just like how it might be hard for a pure Turtle PLD to keep hate when they are hitting for 0, same goes for NIN who just dodges everything and only hits for sub 35 damage, even in the 60s.

Been a while since I was at that range, and I likely won't be able to relate, seeing as how I'm a PLD in that range now, but I do recall there being a time and a place for that sort of thing.. Like in Kuftal tunnel on the mobs down there, sometimes you can do a Hybrid Tank/DD as a NIN (Cocks and tigers) but on the Wyverns, you'll need to macro in Eva/Haste.

[Zempten]

Re: Ninja, only for tanking?

When I was lvling I PTed alot more frequently with a PLD against colibris or another NIN, which was why I said 80%. I guess it varies from server to server.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Ninja, only for tanking?

There are arguably 10 other jobs in this game that can be invited to fill a generic DD spot, while NIN is one of only 3 jobs that can be counted on to tank (some would argue there's only 2 jobs). Why would you want to pigeon-hole yourself into the category that has the most competition when it comes to getting invites?

The +debuff part of the job isn't going to help distinguish you from the other players seeking as "DD only" (either by choice, or by nature of their job). If a party really wants debuffing, they'll probably rely on mages anyway, since their selection of debuffs is more diverse.

If you put a note in your search comment that you are "DD only", party leaders will probably get the wrong impression of you -- that you are trying to leech exp and avoid spending gil on ninja tools.

[Amele]

Re: Ninja, only for tanking?

No amount of STR/Attack gear is going to put you on par until NIN start breaking the TP floor, spamming Critical Boosted WSs and start going batshit crazy with Their broken DW bonuses.

there is no TP floor anymore. but ninjas also do most of their damage in the TP-phase and not the weaponskill phase, so maxing haste and dual-wield is still the way to go.


generally speaking, you should probably evasion/agi tank until the 40's at which point you can probably start to hybrid tank.

at 59 when you get a haubergeon, you can probably start doing Hybrid/DD almost full time, especially since the heaviest DD are all going to take hate off you anyway.

get arhat's at 64 but continue to ws in your haub; by 72+ you can probably DD almost full time - for sure at 74.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Ninja, only for tanking?

NIN is way too expensive. But when done right... holy shyt.

[Omni]

Re: Ninja, only for tanking?

EVA Tanking setup ftw.
Ask Omni about it. He's all about being as gimp as possible at any given moment :-D
As a NIN/WAR, versatility is as simply as macroing the right gear. However, anything other than just straight tanking requires a lot of investments such as time, money and patience. Oh, and macros. NIN is one of the few jobs that is both gear and skill driven. Most melee jobs (read: all) is about the gear. NIN don't have that luxury.
Versatility to NIN is similar to RDMs in that it depends on your sub. NIN/BLM and NIN/RNG have been touched on, but for the most part, expect to fulfill a cookie-cutter role most of the time. If a pt leader types in "/sea all (level) NIN invite", chances are they're not looking for a DD. Or a Nuker.
Bring enough gear, gauge your own abilities. You might find out that with a higher damage output, you can rely on Shadows and Haste to tank.

I saw that checkerboard wearing fishbaker3k. I've got my eye on joo.

eva tanking was the old days. back when there wasnt sushi and back when all you fought were crabs that took 15min to make a chain 5. eva tanking keeps you alive when you tank for that long.

not needed now since all you can do is just tp everything to death in 45s.

but im sure as ppl have said, ninjas are great dd too. one of the fastest TPing jobs out there and properly equipped, blade jins can hit the 1000 range at times.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Ninja, only for tanking?

Hey! I don't wear checkerboards anymore. Now that I'm 50 I only wear t3h Shiny plating.



Me in Full Turtle so you can see my max VIT w/o food.

Ordinarily I just keep on the Life Belt and switch in and out between Parade and Spike Neck.