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**Murphie** · 11-26-2006, 06:54 PM

Re: Can't tank!!!

You could try a Breath Mantle. That little bit of added enmity couldn't hurt.

Otherwise, your gear is really fine. You may want to work on your ACC a bit more if you're not hitting the mob enough (and thus causing it to hate you more), but otherwise, you're really just dealing with the fact that at that level NIN isn't that hot a tank. I much prefer a WAR/MNK or a PLD to a NIN or /NIN tank, but things do get better, I promise.^^

**Sabaron** · 11-26-2006, 06:56 PM

Re: Can't tank!!!

Shuriken

**Aeolus** · 11-26-2006, 06:57 PM

Re: Can't tank!!!

Just keep voking, nothing else you can really do cept spam elemental spells but I never bother. Voke seems to get hate fine every 30s. Mind you I've not lved past 37 so..

**Murphie** · 11-26-2006, 07:01 PM

Re: Can't tank!!!

Originally posted by Sabaron View Post

Shuriken

Every time I suggest shuriken I get my head bitten off by cheap NINs, but I agree - these will also help you to hold hate.

**ValisOfValefor** · 11-26-2006, 09:47 PM

Re: Can't tank!!!

Ah, well I know that at this point with ninja hate is a very fickle thing.

I'm at the point you're at also, The only real solution to the problem is to get a partner, and get your partner to work in rotations of the ichi wheel with you (switch off between who does which spell).

Of course me and my static partner have known each other for a good time now, so it was really easy to deal with. We never lost hate.

If you can't get a partner make sure your using your enfeebles well, and use a high breath mantle like everyone else is suggesting.

Of course it doesn't really work when you do more damage than your partner on regular basis

**Sabaron** · 11-26-2006, 11:30 PM

Re: Can't tank!!!

My problem with Ichi spells:

1. They take a really long time to cast.
2. They don't do significant damage compared to the damage you -could- be causing with blades.
3. They can be interrupted easily while Ichi is down.

My suggestion is throw only enough Ichi's to (a) keep the BLM happy and (b) to keep capped. Otherwise stick to blades and shuriken. If you can't throw, go cap it. Rogetsurin is no substitute for Shuriken--swap in Beetle Ring x 2 in your throwing macro and swap them out at the end of the macro:

/equip L.Ring "Beetle Ring +1"
/equip R.Ring "Beetle Ring +1"
/shoot <t>
/wait 3 {wait 2 would probably be sufficient, but I go 3 just in case}
/equip L.Ring "{other} Ring"
/equip R.Ring "{other} Ring"

Shuriken are expensive... If you can, learn smithing so that you can make them yourself and then use the Mhaura and Selbina Smithing/Weaving guild outlets to buy materials (if you have OP warp). If you don't have OP, you can use the ferry, but that is very slow and iffy if you miss the boat (or the guild is out-of-stock/overpriced). Al Zhabi guild shops also offer good deals on occasion though less often than Mhaura/Selbina. If you can buy them (cheap) from the Tenshodo, you can do that as well--They are sold in Lower Jeuno, Norg, and Nashmau.

If you make them, make more than you'll use and sell a portion of your product (at a profit obviously) to help offset the cost.

**Jarre** · 11-27-2006, 01:06 AM

Re: Can't tank!!!

What food do you eat? If your having troubole with ACC then i suggest eating sushi or a Jack O Lantern, this will help. whats your sub to nin? If its war then surely you should be provoking everytime the ability is reay to keep stacking hate?

**ItazuraNhomango** · 11-27-2006, 01:26 AM

Re: Can't tank!!!

Lose the Rogetsurin, cap your throwing skill (outside of exp party), then switch to shuriken. Follow that with Juji Shuriken when you get to that level. Macro in Beetle Rings +1's for throwing like Sabaron says, then switch back to melee rings. (I wouldn't use /wait; I'd just have one /ra macro with r.acc, and another macro for melee gears.)

Breath Mantle is nice, but I would definitely recommend Dorado Sushi--gives you enmity, and makes both your shuriken throwing and katana swings more effective. Accuracy+ and Enmity+ make great buddies.

At Lv.25+, I loved my Federation Tekko and Republic Subligar. (Hurray for Mithra!) Don't worry, no one will really go blind even if you're not a Mithra. Probably.

* * *

Not sure what you're doing exactly, but Utsusemi casting itself generates fair amount of enmity--I've seen mobs turn/run back to me after I finish casting Utsusemi many, many times on both NIN/WAR and WAR/NIN.

That said, Utsusemi's enmity is no match for Kurayami's. Tell your mages to not cast Blind before you get off a Kurayami attempt at the start of each battle.

* * *

Ichi level Elemental Ninjutsu... er... Waste of time, mostly. You'll get better result using that time to Provoke, swing katana, throw shuriken, attempt Kurayami, recast Utusemi, etc., etc.

The exceptions?

A) Magic Burst. I've actually seen useful damage this way from Tarutaru NIN's. I suspect having Ninjutsu at or near cap would be needed.

B) Lowering resistance to certain element--for mages having trouble with certain debuffs or want to increase accuracy of attack spells. I've only seen this done right by a BLM/NIN. (Yes, BLM/NIN. Honest. And, yes, another Tarutaru.)

Real NIN's should be able to do that just as well if not better, after working out with the mages on the which spell and when.

Otherwise, don't bother with Ichi level elemental attack/debuff Ninjutsu.

**Kurb** · 11-27-2006, 02:43 AM

Re: Can't tank!!!

bahh 4get NIN and lvl PLD waring classes are better tanks

**Celeal** · 11-27-2006, 03:12 AM

Re: Can't tank!!!

Originally posted by Kurb View Post

bahh 4get NIN and lvl PLD waring classes are better tanks

Both PLD and NIN can tank just fine....

To OP:
May you please specify under which situation do you lose hate?

Do you lose hate when your casting of Utsusemi: Ichi is interrupted?
Or
Do you lose hate to DD from DoT or spike damage?
Or
Do you lose hate to main healer?

**Kurb** · 11-27-2006, 03:55 AM

Re: Can't tank!!!

I suppose but i prefer PLD to NIN cause PLD is more DEF and can stand damage where as NIN is dodge and agility...I suppose it depends on the players mental state realy are you the tought type that takes your licks and helps fellow members or are you the smart player who likes to avoid pain .......I'm the first 1

**Murphie** · 11-27-2006, 03:59 AM

Re: Can't tank!!!

Both are great tanks, Kurb. Let's please not have another PLD vs. NIN discussion, since that isn't at all what the thread is about.

**Shirai** · 11-27-2006, 04:31 AM

Re: Can't tank!!!

Only nin 22 here so I can't say too much, however as Celeal stated.

How do you exactly lose hate, and also is it just one party where this happened or have several parties bothered you with losing hate?

Spike damage like Weapon skills and overnuking makes it easy to lose hate especially when te fight just started and you didn't get the chance yet to build up decent hate.
Also overcuring generates more hate to the whm.
Also if you get hit hard it's easier to lose hate and nin doesn't have a very high defense at lower levels although evasion makes up a lot.
Some little advise I can give you even with my lack of experience in tank/melee jobs.
At early levels it's recommendable to have an extra provoker to help you out. (IE a second Ninja or a warrior will help loads to get shadows back up and controll hate a little.)
Like stated before some : Ichi enfeebles and nukes (how minor the nukes might be.) also help to keep hate.
A throwing weapon like Shuriken also helps.
Higher damage weapons, will help you build a little enmity. (I offhand a sword myself since Katanas at lower levels are just weak :| .)
And of course if you solo tank (No War or /war to back you up) voke every time the timer is ready.

**Kurb** · 11-27-2006, 04:55 AM

Re: Can't tank!!!

Originally posted by Murphie View Post

Both are great tanks, Kurb. Let's please not have another PLD vs. NIN discussion, since that isn't at all what the thread is about.

ok sorry I got carried away there lol

How do you exactly lose hate, and also is it just one party where this happened or have several parties bothered you with losing hate?

As far as I know it depends on things like if someone does a lot of damage to the mob, also certain abailities like 2hours and high lvl cures will steal hate

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