Am I doing something wrong as a ninja?

[Necropolis]

Hello, this is my first post on a FFXI forum so don't flame me too bad please.

My main is a 65whm, and decided to level nin so that i can solo bones in Xacabard while trying to obtain club skill and get the all powerful Hexa-strike, and have some general fun with a meleeing whm.

That being said I have some questions about nin in general and if I am approaching this correctly, as I havn't really leveled any other melee jobs seriously.

First I will list my gear I have as a lvl 32 Ninja currently:

Weapons: Busuto +1,Suzume,Flame Sword and a couple others, havn't noticed much difference between them

Head: Beetle Mask +1
Legs: Kingdom Trousers
Body: Federation Gi
Feet: Winged Boots
Hands: Fed Tekko
Back: Nomad's Mantle
Ears: Dodge Earring X2
Rings: Bomb Ring, Reflex Ring
Waist: Warrior's Belt +1
Neck: Spike Necklace
Food: Sole Sushi
Not Sure of Equips for the next stage, seeing as its time to go to Garlige Citadel now.

But my main problems are as follow:

How much should I be evading?
I have capped evasion, lots of evasion/agility gear, and i don't see it produce many results. I keep shadows up when ever i can, and usually start each battle casting over the last shadow is the puller will wait long enough for timer to cool down that is.

How much should I be Parrying?
unfortunatly this is not capped, I hit 54 last night, which seems low compared to everything else. but it seems to produce more than the evasion *at times*. though my understanding from other threads is that evasion > parry.

How does a nin keep hate?
I've tried everything, but an overzealous MNK, War, or even a WHM can steal it from me constantly! I start the fights with a provoke, swing, Paralyze, shadows, swing, blind, voke, poison, shadows (if timer allows), the from there i swing. I use the Ichi elementals a lot, which now i have read arn't much worth it, though i have had capped Ninjitsu for the past 10 lvls .

The hate is the main issue i have. I am a taru as well so my hits are a little gimp, but i try to make up for it in food or gear. Its just a matter of knowing what to buy. Working on getting an Emp. Hairpin for the evasion, so perhaps that will help with the getting hit part. Do all nin have hate control problems? it seems from other threads they do, I just don't know if mine are because of something I am doing wrong, or party members like to get the hate from me for bragging rights.
(as a side note, when the mnk kept voking to get the hate from me in the Jungles, i told him I am a whm main and have no problem not getting hit so if he would like to tank go ahead )

So in conclusion, I am a lvl 32 taru Nin that wants to hold hate, lvl parry, and evade a bit more. Any help would be appreciated.

Also I love this job, and am considering taking it to 75 after whm, thats if i can bear getting war to 37, getting it to 18 was a big enough pain, but after i use the Utsusemi:ni scroll in my inventory, maybe that will be enough to make me lvl war.

Well I would love to chat longer, but thread is getting long, and I don't want to irritate ppl with my first post on a forum, So thank you for any help in advance.

Necropolis

[Jei]

Re: Am I doing something wrong as a ninja?

The +10 evasion from Emp hairpin is very handy. if you can afford it.

For a Taru. I think you benefit more from STR ring. More damage = more hate.

At your level, I think Rice Dumbling is the best food choice. You don't have enough base accuracy to boost with sushi yet.
Also, Dorado sushi adds +3 enmity so it's more useful than sole imo if you really have to build up more hate.

And definitely use This. Way better than warrior's belt.

[raidenn]

Re: Am I doing something wrong as a ninja?

Ive seen a lot of Taru Ninjas using Dorado Sushi...
Of course having a good thf that sticks hate to you also helps, I did remember having trouble setting up SATA during the early 30s.

[Necropolis]

Re: Am I doing something wrong as a ninja?

Thanks Jei,

I've never been a fan of enchantment items, but maybe because on my mage jobs I havn't found one worth getting, so I'll be looking for that mantle to night to check it out.

I like the food options too, I was going with the sole mainly for the +5 str, but I think I will pick up a stack of your suggestions and see how it works out.

[Necropolis]

Re: Am I doing something wrong as a ninja?

Ive seen a lot of Taru Ninjas using Dorado Sushi...
Of course having a good thf that sticks hate to you also helps, I did remember having trouble setting up SATA during the early 30s.

I havn't had a chance to try out SATA yet, my ninja went from 12-32 in the past two days, and my last party started at level 27 with no thf, so when we all hit 30, no one was there to SATA. (I think that SATA is 30 right? thf is lvl 1 atm).

Of course I didn't think of SATA before since I kinda rushed getting NIN leveled in one weekend, but I think that will help a lot once I can get a thf in my pt.

[Jei]

Re: Am I doing something wrong as a ninja?

Thf is awesome 30+. I like to set up 2 Nin or Nin+War combo with a thf for 30-37 ^^

I used This a lot for my Whm at lower levels.

[Necropolis]

Re: Am I doing something wrong as a ninja?

about the low level whm thing....

when i started playing i was a rdm to 18 for the sub job, then i changed to whm with the solo reason of teleports and ended up loving it, however i was new and didn't know what the AH was or what gear was, or anything at all....

needless to say i went to parties all the way up to 32 in nothing but my starter taru gear when someone kicked me and said get better gear, then i got introduced to the art of farming for gil and getting spells and over all having to know what the heck you are doing.

don't laugh at me too hard, we were all newbs and one point and went to a party with no pants...right? <.<

[Jei]

Re: Am I doing something wrong as a ninja?

hehe I remember what I was like ^^ My Whm used only starting gear all the way to 20 too. Then I found the doublet model and love it. So I got them for myself. I hate how robe looks, still hate it now actually.

My Whm 1-32, I sold crystals to NPC to support all my spells ._. such a noob.

/scream omgwtf Qufim under beastmen control! how am I gonna buy my next spell??

[Celeal]

Re: Am I doing something wrong as a ninja?

IMHO, evasion is good if and only if the mob is attacking you (nin tank). If the mob is chasing other members, evasion does not help for getting hate back to you.

Both bat and beetle in Garlige Citadel have AoE evasion down move. The bat has strong resist on dark element, so you may have trouble landing Blind. The Beetle has fair resist on earth element, so may have have trouble landing Slow.

Do not bet everything on evasion or parry alone. Keeping shadow up is an afford on both debuff (Blind + Slow + Paralyze) and evasion/parry. Slow on slow hitting mob like beetles or carbs, will help you the most for successful recast of Utsusemi: Ichi.

The paralyze effect of Blade: Retsu is potent at your level too. The first paralyze effect usually kicks in right after the WS is landed. It is a handy tool for getting Utsusemi: Ichi back on when all your shadows are stripped. Instead spend time on Ichi version of elemental debuff, I suggest spend time for swing katana to gain TP for Blade: Retsu.

As for hate issue, don't panic when you lost hate, just focus on how you can get the hate back. From my experience, there are some tips:
1. If the NIN tank takes a lot of damage and the healer dump big cure on NIN, the hate will shift to the healer. To avoid this situation, try to avoid damage taken, with combination of Blind, Slow, Paralyze, evasion, parry, and good timing of getting Utsusemi: Ichi back on.
2. If the NIN lose hate to melee DD (like MNK), the trick is timing of provoke. For example, a WAR/THF use SA + Stumwind and get lots of hate. If the NIN provoke right after the WAR uses SA + Stumwind, most likely the hate is still locked on the WAR. Wait for the WAR takes a few hits from the mob to lose hate, wait a couple seconds for the spike hate from SA + Stumwind decays, then NIN provoke and get the hate back.

Sometimes you may need to lost hate for recasting Utsusemi: Ichi, so don't feel bad if you are not able to lock hate like a PLD

[Sabaron]

Re: Am I doing something wrong as a ninja?

Once you get Ni Elementals, you'll be able to grab a lot more hate. Debuff tools don't grab nearly as much. Remember that one of the coolest (and most expensive) things a Ninja can do is to throw Shuriken. These are very expensive . If you learn a little smithing you can make them, but in order to beat the Tenshodo price, you'll have to HQ them. Buy them from the Tenshodo, Akamafula (Lower Jeuno), Tsutsuroon (Nashmau), or Jirokichi (Norg). They have a DPS of 9.06 which is better than any other weapon the Ninja can equip at 18th level. The advanced throwing stars also sport similar qualities:

Shuriken

The great expense, I think, is what keeps most Ninjas from throwing.

[Omni]

Re: Am I doing something wrong as a ninja?

at 32, its tough to tank alone. it shouldnt be expected you can tank alone and be efficient at the same time. best bet is to get another nin or war/nin to duo tank.

evading... again at 32 your evasion isnt going to help too much. it helps but honestly, when fighting IT mobs your evade isnt going to be mind blowing. Against VT and less mobs, the evade really starts to show. again, at 32 you only have access to a limited amount of evasion. coupled with only have ichi, its tough. dont sweat urself if u are getting hit because no one can fully tank on ichi alone.

hate, do hate with dmg. u can try casting the ichi debuffs too, but its very difficult when you have a 4.5s cast window and only 3 shadows to protect you. i suggest eating meat or meat/acc foods like rice dumpling to help you out. enmity is very scarce too.

i never really worried about my hp. once you get utsusemi ni and start getting hasted regularly, youll really start to see nin tanking come into its own. the thing you should practice the most once you get ni is your timing when casting ichi when you have ni active. ichi will not overwrite ni, and if u cancel ni too early, youre left with no shadows, if you cancel to late, youll have no effect. try to cancel ni at 45-55% when casting ichi. i went through grinding w/o any focus on hp. just be alert and it should be all good.

good luck.

[Necropolis]

Re: Am I doing something wrong as a ninja?

IMHO, evasion is good if and only if the mob is attacking you (nin tank). If the mob is chasing other members, evasion does not help for getting hate back to you.

Both bat and beetle in Garlige Citadel have AoE evasion down move. The bat has strong resist on dark element, so you may have trouble landing Blind. The Beetle has fair resist on earth element, so may have have trouble landing Slow.

Do not bet everything on evasion or parry alone. Keeping shadow up is an afford on both debuff (Blind + Slow + Paralyze) and evasion/parry. Slow on slow hitting mob like beetles or carbs, will help you the most for successful recast of Utsusemi: Ichi.

The paralyze effect of Blade: Retsu is potent at your level too. The first paralyze effect usually kicks in right after the WS is landed. It is a handy tool for getting Utsusemi: Ichi back on when all your shadows are stripped. Instead spend time on Ichi version of elemental debuff, I suggest spend time for swing katana to gain TP for Blade: Retsu.

As for hate issue, don't panic when you lost hate, just focus on how you can get the hate back. From my experience, there are some tips:
1. If the NIN tank takes a lot of damage and the healer dump big cure on NIN, the hate will shift to the healer. To avoid this situation, try to avoid damage taken, with combination of Blind, Slow, Paralyze, evasion, parry, and good timing of getting Utsusemi: Ichi back on.
2. If the NIN lose hate to melee DD (like MNK), the trick is timing of provoke. For example, a WAR/THF use SA + Stumwind and get lots of hate. If the NIN provoke right after the WAR uses SA + Stumwind, most likely the hate is still locked on the WAR. Wait for the WAR takes a few hits from the mob to lose hate, wait a couple seconds for the spike hate from SA + Stumwind decays, then NIN provoke and get the hate back.

Sometimes you may need to lost hate for recasting Utsusemi: Ichi, so don't feel bad if you are not able to lock hate like a PLD

Thanks for the insight. Being a mage at heart i just loved the Elemental Wheel, its like infinite mana font, and something I was familer with. I actually thought that was a NIN main role, more of a mana free caster, but I'm learning otherwise, at least 500K in tools later I got capped Ninjitsu for when I get the :Ni line of spells

I try casting shadows right before it hits me, I've noticed if it hits me at about 15% cast, i wont get interuppted, and it wont hit before i got them fully up. Unfortunatly in the jungle we fought nothing but mandies, so shadows lasted for about 2 sec, but at least the whm was using juices, and we had a smn that had a nice mp pool too so everything was pretty smooth.

I knew kinda that I should wait a second to try to get hate back, but seeing as this is my first serious melee job I just panic when I lost hate. I automatically hit Voke, then beserker, and start swinging away. I'm hoping to play around with it a little more tonight and refine my techniques.

So far no one in my parties has died with the exception of a party wipe when we decided to try evil weapons in the saurgmane campaign (sp? no auto translate in here), at around level 27~28. Luckily most of my parties with ninja so far have been with understanding ppl and don't mind taking a hit or two for me when i lose hate. I'm also glad that not a single party of mine was PLed, so I havn't lost out on any strageties or skill ups that i would have missed out on before.

[Necropolis]

Re: Am I doing something wrong as a ninja?

Once you get Ni Elementals, you'll be able to grab a lot more hate. Debuff tools don't grab nearly as much. Remember that one of the coolest (and most expensive) things a Ninja can do is to throw Shuriken. These are very expensive . If you learn a little smithing you can make them, but in order to beat the Tenshodo price, you'll have to HQ them. Buy them from the Tenshodo, Akamafula (Lower Jeuno), Tsutsuroon (Nashmau), or Jirokichi (Norg). They have a DPS of 9.06 which is better than any other weapon the Ninja can equip at 18th level. The advanced throwing stars also sport similar qualities:

Shuriken

The great expense, I think, is what keeps most Ninjas from throwing.

The expense isn't holding me back, its the fact that my throwing skill is equal to 1, so the odds of me hitting something now is pretty slim, so perhaps I'll spend some much needed time on doing that tonight.

[raidenn]

Re: Am I doing something wrong as a ninja?

For throwing this might help
http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/6973

No one camps it on my server.

[Necropolis]

Re: Am I doing something wrong as a ninja?

For throwing this might help
http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/6973

No one camps it on my server.

hate to sound like a newb, but until just now I didn't know these things returned to you. i always thought that monks carried stacks of throwing weapons for chakram (sp?). Now I see on that site it says it returns, would be a lot cheaper to level throwing with a reusable weapon as a opposed to shurikens. Thanks