Utsusemi: Ni - Are they making it a level 38 cast??

[neighbortaru]

Re: Utsusemi: Ni - Are they making it a level 38 cast??

like when Raise for PLD used to be able to use at lvl 75 i think...now its like a lvl 50 spell

oh right, forgot about that one.

[Liquidedust]

Re: Utsusemi: Ni - Are they making it a level 38 cast??

1. smack your LS mate on the head. make fun of him too (optional)
2. afaik, they've never changed a level of a spell. At least none have occurred withing recent updates, but it's possible it might have happened during JP release/NA beta.

Yeah nothing is set in stone of "official" until posted at POL (some hints can usually be given from interviews at Festivals etc . . . but usually never give the exact details of an update).

On the other issue most recent spell change would be Raise for Paladin, but there the change were from PLD75 to PLD50 and happened in the September 2004 update (at around CoP release).

It weren't that recent (basically 2 years ago now) but were around EU release so were a lot after NA release (this is just to be nitpicky though).

The level required for paladins to use the white magic spell "Raise" has been lowered from 75 to 50.

EDIT: Damn Malevolent beat me to it . . . .

[Ziero]

Re: Utsusemi: Ni - Are they making it a level 38 cast??

Actually there were tons of spell lvl changes and down right removals since the game was released iirc. I remember seeing a thread on Alla way back when (before it was IGE'd) about all the changes that occured since the release of the game until that point and there were a bunch of Rdm spells changed around and such.

[Macht]

Re: Utsusemi: Ni - Are they making it a level 38 cast??

Actually there were tons of spell lvl changes and down right removals since the game was released iirc. I remember seeing a thread on Alla way back when (before it was IGE'd) about all the changes that occured since the release of the game until that point and there were a bunch of Rdm spells changed around and such.

Yes, when the game was very young there were a lot of spell level changes. Now though it's a bit more stable and it's also become a careful acrobat because for some silly reason the larger a community gets the less they seem to like changes.

[ikkleste]

Re: Utsusemi: Ni - Are they making it a level 38 cast??

if any thing i'd say that this update makes it less likey that would happen. By altering SAm the way they have they've effectively given 2H'ers a boost to hopefully bring them up to the level 1Hers are with a NIN sub. This certainly lessens the imbalences that were upsetting people and hopefully creates a full range of options for weapons again, a WAR isn't going to be forced into NIN sub if GA and SAM sub works well as well. If it works there'll hopefully be less people worried about/NIN dominance.

[Maju]

Re: Utsusemi: Ni - Are they making it a level 38 cast??

if any thing i'd say that this update makes it less likey that would happen. By altering SAm the way they have they've effectively given 2H'ers a boost to hopefully bring them up to the level 1Hers are with a NIN sub. This certainly lessens the imbalences that were upsetting people and hopefully creates a full range of options for weapons again, a WAR isn't going to be forced into NIN sub if GA and SAM sub works well as well. If it works there'll hopefully be less people worried about/NIN dominance.

For WARs, yes you might and probably will reach WAR/NIN damage output as WAR/SAM. However, it still won't change a thing. Why? Just take a look at what kind of jobs sub NIN. We see MNK/NIN, DRG/NIN, DRK/NIN and SAM/NIN. None of those jobs gains any additional offensive power at all from subbing NIN, yet they do it so they could survive in battle.

Just because /SAM will boost 2H user damage output, nobody is going to use it unless it gives defense comparable to /NIN and I doubt even the new and vastly improved Third Eye can compete with the imbalanceness of Utsusemi.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Utsusemi: Ni - Are they making it a level 38 cast??

lol yea, where did this one come from?
just read the official news, its all there.

Whistles innocently.

[Jei]

Re: Utsusemi: Ni - Are they making it a level 38 cast??

When I heard about the SMN changes, I thought it was rumors too.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Utsusemi: Ni - Are they making it a level 38 cast??

S-E is all about making the simplest things take the longest possible time. With that in mind I could honestly see them knocking Utsusemi: Ni back to 38 or higher in an effort to kneecap the merit burn parties. The fact that this would actually level the playing field for jobs other than warrior, bard and red mage is neither here nor there.

[Nekomieu]

Re: Utsusemi: Ni - Are they making it a level 38 cast??

For WARs, yes you might and probably will reach WAR/NIN damage output as WAR/SAM. However, it still won't change a thing. Why? Just take a look at what kind of jobs sub NIN. We see MNK/NIN, DRG/NIN, DRK/NIN and SAM/NIN. None of those jobs gains any additional offensive power at all from subbing NIN, yet they do it so they could survive in battle.

Just because /SAM will boost 2H user damage output, nobody is going to use it unless it gives defense comparable to /NIN and I doubt even the new and vastly improved Third Eye can compete with the imbalanceness of Utsusemi.

We won't know how it will change things untill we get it, unfortunately.

Also, they don't sub Nin for survivability, they do it to not take the 100-200 points they might take from gaining aggro, it's only because of lazy tanks, and scared players that shadows are so important. People are sacraficing soo much versatility when they do it, and it's just reinforcing a cycle, and creating bad players.

Everyone is scared that their White Mage might use some mp, and as a White Mage, I can tell you how boring 95% of the parties are past 40 or so. Plus there's the fact that if you are standing there for 5 fights picking your nose, and decide to entertain yourself by casting banish, you get yelled at for "wasteing mp" when you weren't using any in the first place (and the regen from refresh makes up the mp cast exactily).

I'd add more, but I have to run, so, yea...

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Utsusemi: Ni - Are they making it a level 38 cast??

Also, they don't sub Nin for survivability, they do it to not take the 100-200 points they might take from gaining aggro, it's only because of lazy tanks, and scared players that shadows are so important.

No offence, but from the moment warriors can sub Utsusemi: Ni your job as a white mage in exp parties ceases to exist. Why have a dedicated healer when a bunch of DD jobs can bounce hate among themselves with the odd spot heal from a bard or red mage while gaining beneficial songs and buffs enabling them to kill the mobs so fast that their shadows are enough to ensure they rarely take a point of damage.

[Malevolent]

Re: Utsusemi: Ni - Are they making it a level 38 cast??

For WARs, yes you might and probably will reach WAR/NIN damage output as WAR/SAM. However, it still won't change a thing. Why? Just take a look at what kind of jobs sub NIN. We see MNK/NIN, DRG/NIN, DRK/NIN and SAM/NIN. None of those jobs gains any additional offensive power at all from subbing NIN, yet they do it so they could survive in battle.

Just because /SAM will boost 2H user damage output, nobody is going to use it unless it gives defense comparable to /NIN and I doubt even the new and vastly improved Third Eye can compete with the imbalanceness of Utsusemi.

has a good point. Now since i have nin lvled to 15 i did some farming in Prom-Dem and i subbed /nin basically for shadows and Duel wield....basically survivability.../sam will pump out the offense but won't stack up to the defense of /nin.

[Omni]

Re: Utsusemi: Ni - Are they making it a level 38 cast??

No offence, but from the moment warriors can sub Utsusemi: Ni your job as a white mage in exp parties ceases to exist. Why have a dedicated healer when a bunch of DD jobs can bounce hate among themselves with the odd spot heal from a bard or red mage while gaining beneficial songs and buffs enabling them to kill the mobs so fast that their shadows are enough to ensure they rarely take a point of damage.

Very true.
No one is scared of a whm using mp. It all comes down to efficiency. I really hate to say, nowadays, having a dedicated healer is not efficient when you're exping towards 75, even before then actually. Even with a pld in Mire, you do not need a dedicated healer. Having a pld with Auto-refresh, Sanction refresh and 1 outside refresh, that's 5mp/tick. And with how fast those mobs goes down, even plds dont need all that much healing help other than the spot heal from your friendly brd or rdm.

This is why SE is trying to make whm the ultimate healing job of choice. They know its not efficient to have a job that only heals, while others can heal, refresh, debuff, buff and even do a little dmg.

I highly doubt that people would say anything to you about casting banish when you are in a burn pt. That isnt the issue anyways. The issue is that your party slot if better filled by a brd, blu, rdm, or cor.

Again, the whole reason why SE wants to make whm the 1 and only choice when it comes to healing.

[Aeni]

Re: Utsusemi: Ni - Are they making it a level 38 cast??

I have to agree with some of the comments with regards to job classes like WHM. They are hurting. Changes like adjusting SAM as a subjob means jack when there's huge visible problems that are just crying for remedies. We got WHMs that are unwanted and PLDs "siding" with evil by subbing NIN and LFP as a DD rather than as their class defining position.

This outrage has got to stop, but SE isn't doing jack. And as more and more players start to leave the game, SE better not come crying a year later and asking how to best improve the game so that it can have the best Return to Vana'Diel campaign ever.

[Nekomieu]

Re: Utsusemi: Ni - Are they making it a level 38 cast??

Very true.
No one is scared of a whm using mp. It all comes down to efficiency. I really hate to say, nowadays, having a dedicated healer is not efficient when you're exping towards 75, even before then actually. Even with a pld in Mire, you do not need a dedicated healer. Having a pld with Auto-refresh, Sanction refresh and 1 outside refresh, that's 5mp/tick. And with how fast those mobs goes down, even plds dont need all that much healing help other than the spot heal from your friendly brd or rdm.

This is why SE is trying to make whm the ultimate healing job of choice. They know its not efficient to have a job that only heals, while others can heal, refresh, debuff, buff and even do a little dmg.

I highly doubt that people would say anything to you about casting banish when you are in a burn pt. That isnt the issue anyways. The issue is that your party slot if better filled by a brd, blu, rdm, or cor.

Again, the whole reason why SE wants to make whm the 1 and only choice when it comes to healing.

There are burn parties, and psudo-burn parties (Parties who use burn tactics, but are to shoddy do do them right). You don't know which is which untill you have the mob eating your face after a cure III.

Also I have seen several people talk about WHite Mage mp as though it were a sacred resource, that casting a 15 mp spell is going to get everyone killed. Also since hate is so poorly controled, that banish may very well pull it towards me x_x (not likely, but anythign oculd happen).

What I feel the issue is isn't that other jorbs can heal in thoes parties, it's that thoes partys exist, and are as efficient as they are. That every job at 74+ subs Ninja because that one ability is so powerful that it lets people completely ignore party structure, and have either Red Mage, Blue Mage, or the one guy who subs white mage cure the whole party. Also it lets them completely ignore the need for a dedicated tank so no one cares where the mob's attention is, as long as everyone is hitting it.

I guess the matter is not what can we do to other jobs to make them better than subbing Ninja, because at this point, there is no way to make anything better than :Ni the only solution that really sticks out is changing :ni to 38, it dosen't impact Ninja at all, they get the spell a level later, oh-boy... But it fixes the lvl 74-74 problems that half the classes suffer from (or only a few classes, but you know, if any class is suffering, then it's an issue).