Re-envisioning NIN

[raidenn]

Re: Re-envisioning NIN

At that level you probably have to go to East Altepa for beetles right? Hmm I remember having a hard time finding a party there too because its usually packed. Not to mention 2-3 parties of RMT around. Some people hang out by the zone to west altepa seeking a party though.

[Macht]

Re: Re-envisioning NIN

At that level you probably have to go to East Altepa for beetles right? Hmm I remember having a hard time finding a party there too because its usually packed. Not to mention 2-3 parties of RMT around. Some people hang out by the zone to west altepa seeking a party though.

More then 1 area you can go for exp at lv. 32. If I recall that's when I went to Garliage Citadel and did the Bats. Or it was Crawler's Nest and killing flies.

[Omni]

Re: Re-envisioning NIN

Ahh ... news flash! We are already hybrids due to the subjob system.
Where in hell were you these past two years?

i had a response but ill just edit it out.
you're so inept sometimes. its almost funny.

[Clever Ninja]

Re: Re-envisioning NIN

This is what got us into trouble. Keep adding new jobs, let's see how SE is going to balance everyone. What a dumb idea.

All the new jobs have been DD only, which we have enough of. That's the main reason why the new jobs have been a problem. A tanking job is totally different from that and hasn't been added, since well, OMG SINCE NIN CAME OUT!? NO WAI!

Ahh ... news flash! We are already hybrids due to the subjob system.

Where in hell were you these past two years?

The sad thing is I think you're really serious when you say this.

[TenchiHawkwing]

Re: Re-envisioning NIN

I say give Ichi 2 more shadows, give Ni 3 more and have em work on the % of how many shadows you have left + Ninjutsu skill. Lower Ichi recast 5sec, lower Ni by 10.

50% Is the lowest chance you'll ever have of getting hit with Shadows up... That's with 0 skill. Maybe even have enemy INT as a factor. The way I'm seeing this... NIN main job would (with capped Ninjutsu) never have less than a 80%ish chance to get hit.

(Also, make -ga spells act like physical AoE where they don't always wipe all shadows...)

Therefore changing Utusemi, strengthing it in alot of ways and only taking away part of it's effectiveness.

Bad change for those NINs who are able to keep shadows up 24/7(sorry, but that's broken anyway) Good for everyone else imo.

EDIT: Also, rather than shadows making the user lose enmity when the enemy hits a shadow it should give the Nin a very small boost in enmity, ammount increasing with the # of shadows hit in a row.(I'd be pissed if I kept hitting shadow images)

[seq]

Re: Re-envisioning NIN

TenchiHawkwing we don't need less tanks eh,
you know THF gets like a cap of 80% evasion rate, and still gets hit by nooby mobs in the nooby camps at LV75.

(Also, make -ga spells act like physical AoE where they don't always wipe all shadows...)

then give PLD immunity (sp?) to magic >_>

i'de say give the Utsusimi caster no attack power at all when he have shadows up, thus makes NIN able to choose to DD or Tank NOT both at the same time.
or like what others said, give NIN MP (like PLD's or something) heh.
or you know what? make it dependant on your evasion skill.
edit:
evasion skill or Ninjutsu (sp? x.x) skill.

[TenchiHawkwing]

Re: Re-envisioning NIN

TenchiHawkwing we don't need less tanks eh,
you know THF gets like a cap of 80% evasion rate, and still gets hit by nooby mobs in the nooby camps at LV75.


then give PLD immunity (sp?) to magic >_>

i'de say give the Utsusimi caster no attack power at all when he have shadows up, thus makes NIN able to choose to DD or Tank NOT both at the same time.
or like what others said, give NIN MP (like PLD's or something) heh.
or you know what? make it dependant on your evasion skill.
edit:
evasion skill or Ninjutsu (sp? x.x) skill.

What do you mean by "We don't need less tanks"? I assume you don't know that most Ninjas get hit while tanking anyway(Especially on anything that can be considered "hard")... and notice that 80% was what I said would be the LOWEST(Hell, I even bolded it because I knew if I didn't someone would come in with a reply like this) chance they'd have of getting hit. (That's with 1 shadow left... the more shadows you have the more of a chance you'd have of the enemy hitting a shadow.)


The -ga not wiping all shadows is part of balancing the "new" Utsusemi I proposed. I'm not looking to nerf the ability, only change it.

A NIN will tell you getting hit by Whirl of Rage sucks as is, and there's even a chance that all their shadows won't be taken away by it... it still sucks to put up shadows and them BAM Whirl of Rage, etc. Magic -ga spells would act just like that.

But if you feel that would be too overpowering there would always be a condition by which all shadows are wiped. Magic could go by the same check as physical hits and if the spell were to hit the NIN directly through that check all shadows might dissapear, so sometimes NIN would keep shadows, sometimes not.



Also seq, keep in mind that my main is PLD, so I'm coming at this from that veiwpoint, as much as I'd love immunity to magic... I can look at our 2HR Invincible and easily be able to tell that SE intended that to be our weakness. Honestly I think the changes I'm talking about for Utsusemi would probably balance things in favor of PLD, while still leaving a place for NIN.

[Meepster]

Re: Re-envisioning NIN

wow... i...nevermind

lets start by assessing the situation here. we have this ongoing battle for "best tank" between 2 TOTALLY different jobs. Look at what the jobs can do first before you decide which one is better. From someone who has played on both sides of the fence, i'd say that they are both great jobs and neither one of them deserves to be 'nerfed' per se. Paladins are truly a powerhouse of a tank. Noone can take a hit like them, and now they have added autorefresh. Also they can tank with staves, which they happen to be very proficient with, and use the weapon skill Spirit taker to make their mana pool seemingly unending. They DO produce decent damage, maybe not as pld/war in a pt vs. IT++ mobs... but they can solo and do great dmg as pld/nin on the same lv that a ninja could, but with much less evasion... and for a good reason: they would be too powerful.

now lets look at the ninja. second highest evasion skill in the game (thief wins that area by a mile) which brings me to my main point about this job.... its effective as MAIN job only to try and solo or tank anything worth fighting in a pt! period. i've never seen a war/nin that tried to tank and didnt get his ass handed to him. look at the evasion skill on them. for example: i have a 75 blm... do you see me as blm/nin trying to solo crap with a staff? no! why? i'm not an idiot... my evasion skill caps at 200.... thats less than a lv 60 ninja has. noone can pull off blink tanking like a ninja can, except for thieves, but thieves cant tank for a pt. i'm not exactly sure of all the evasion skill caps for the other jobs but i'm SURE that they are probably a C or lower. You cant honestly expect to keep up with a ninja in that department. Ninjas on the other hand are capable of dealing better dmg than a pld. Yes this is true... but they also dont have JA's like rampart, sentinel, cover, cures, flash... see where i'm going? you have to pick your battles. Some mobs are easier to tank as ninja, while some are easier as pld. and why on earth people think utsusemi makes you invincible, i'll never understand. show me one ninja thats never been hit, never been one shotted in a pt, never had all thier shadows eaten by a single move from a mob and left with no recast.... and i'll show you my surpised face :O Also, look at dual wield. subbing ninja makes for some really slow delays, unless you sacrifice accuracy and potential damage for a crappy belt that speeds things up. there are other pieces of gear like suppannomimi which is an awesome piece of equipment, but also end-game, so you are still nice and slooooow while lvling from 20(when you get dual wield) - 75

neither job was meant to be invincible....
neither job is better than the other....
one is designed to not get hit, and when they do it hurts... bad
the other job is designed to get hit and not cry about it... and they do it... well

[Aeni]

Re: Re-envisioning NIN

i had a response but ill just edit it out.
you're so inept sometimes. its almost funny.

1. [n] an offspring of genetically dissimilar parents or stock; especially offspring produced by breeding plants or animals of different varieties or breeds or species
2. [n] a composite of mixed origin; "the vice-presidency is a hybrid of administrative and legislative offices"
3. [n] a word that is composed of parts from different languages (e.g., `monolingual' has a Greek prefix and a Latin root)
4. [adj] produced by crossbreeding

I think you're the one who needs to check his literacy background. AFAIK, I'm the only one here who knows what hybrid means. Take one job (main) and put it with another job (subjob) and you have a hybrid.

Do you know what it means? I doubt it.

[Meepster]

Re: Re-envisioning NIN

sorry if i seemed a bit rude in my post, but i honestly felt that it needed to be said. There really is nothing you can do to even out the jobs anymore. They are even. One is strong where the other is weak, and vice versa, it all depends on what kind of mobs you are fighting. ninjas dont need anymore shadows taken away from them... at all. Its hard enough to blink tank IT++ alot of the time without merits as is... as i said before, i'm a 75 blm so i put 2 merits in evasion, and i wear SH, evasion earring, fortitude torque, empress hairpin, bat cape, akinji bazubands, jaridah pants, spirit torque, and survival belt for evasion gear on my 62 ninja, and i still get owned and left with no shadows or recast more times than i'd like to. I'll bet paladins have the same problems. And if you gave them provoke or even thier own version of it (taunt or something) they would be too powerful because they could then sub ninja or redmage or something that would really benefit them. Bottom line, it all boils down to the player. If you wear decent gear and play to your limits, you'll excell in whatever you do. You can't point the finger at another job just because you are having some downtime with getting parties and feel that you arent wanted.

[Raydeus]

Re: Re-envisioning NIN

Sorry guys, but you kinda are 1 month late with your replies.


*This is the part where you see a mod using (Lock Thread)ability*





...maybe

[Aeni]

Re: Re-envisioning NIN

Sorry guys, but you kinda are 1 month late with your replies.


*This is the part where you see a mod using (Lock Thread)ability*





...maybe

Umm ... wtf? Have nothing better to do than troll? That's a bannable offense.

[Raydeus]

Re: Re-envisioning NIN

Umm ... wtf? Have nothing better to do than troll? That's a bannable offense.

Hey man, don't take your anger out on me, if you are mad about that comment you replied to that has nothing to do with me. I'm just pointing out this thread is a month old and most people already forgot about it.

Just chill.

[Omni]

Re: Re-envisioning NIN

1. [n] an offspring of genetically dissimilar parents or stock; especially offspring produced by breeding plants or animals of different varieties or breeds or species
2. [n] a composite of mixed origin; "the vice-presidency is a hybrid of administrative and legislative offices"
3. [n] a word that is composed of parts from different languages (e.g., `monolingual' has a Greek prefix and a Latin root)
4. [adj] produced by crossbreeding

I think you're the one who needs to check his literacy background. AFAIK, I'm the only one here who knows what hybrid means. Take one job (main) and put it with another job (subjob) and you have a hybrid.
Do you know what it means? I doubt it.

read back. please. it'll do you some good. everyone else knew the context of what i meant by hybrid except you.

the discussion was about jobs being able to do many things, and to do them well. jobs like rdm and blu are 2 jobs that can do many things pretty darn well. it has nothing to do with the actually meaning of hybrid. i beileve the discussion was pertaining to pld and how nin does tanking AND dd well and pld cant. some people suggested making pld dd better so it can compete with nin. giving too many jobs the ablity to do too many things well does not solve the balance issue.

A war/whm is not a hybrid job by this context. that is what YOU were pointing out. yea take your websters dictionary and sure its a hybrid job it can heal and do some dmg. however this is not what we were talking about. you of all players should know that a war/whm cant heal a pt reliable and be a great dd. just because a war/whm has cure II in its list of abilties, doesnt mean its a hybrid job. really, go listen to yourself.

dude, stop taking things out of context then trying to make a point out of them.
you're really pathetic trying to pull some webster dictionary response.

[Antivomit]

Re: Re-envisioning NIN

Well, lets go way way back to the start of this thread for a sec. I actually really like that idea. It's got cool names for stuff and cool features. Why when something gets changed it gets deemed "nerfing"? Change is not bad, guys. I've noticed that when people get comfortable with a certain situation, they will defend it to the death, no matter what the suggested change is. I agree that this will prolly never happen and not many will like it due to the traditionalist factor, but none the less.... Kudos for a well thought plan.