How do you do it?

[Chicken_Little]

Just wanted some input from all the other ninjas out there. Do you start a fight with Utsusemi: Ichi or Utsusemi: Ni up and how do you work it from there? Personally I start with Ichi up and hit the mob with Kurayami: Ni as they approach camp followed by a quick voke, count two shadows and recast Ichi. Then I just wait for the timer to count down on ichi hoping I can just bounce from Ichi to Ichi. Most times I can but hit Ni when the timer isn't down and all my shadows drop. Is this how pretty much all high level ninjas do it or is there another way?

[Omni]

Re: How do you do it?

Start off with Ni before the fight begins. By the time the puller gets back your time should almost be up. When you get to your 4th shadow, cast Ni again. That'll give you 8 shadows back to back. As the mob is coming in from the pull, start your first enfeeble, then provoke and land your next enfeeble.

After your second Ni is on its 3rd shadow, wait till the middle of the monsters attack round and then start casting Ichi. hit + twice and highlight the utsusemi icon. If the mob misses you on that round, you must cancel the utsusemi buff icon before you reach ~50%, if you dont, ichi will not overwrite ni. If the mob doesnt miss you, it should take that last shadow and your ichi cast should finish shortly after your last shadow disappears.

Rinse and repeat ni > ichi after that till the end of battle.

[Akai]

Re: How do you do it?

i agree with omni. i use ni before pull, i cast kurayami and jubaku (usually kurayami first so mob doesnt hit me while i cast jubaku) then recast ni once all 4 shadows are gone, then alternate them, while casting the elemental ni spells weakness before the element thats strong (ice before fire etc) and such i may get in a few ranged attacks with my chakram or shurikens

[Chicken_Little]

Re: How do you do it?

Thanks for the input. I'll have to give that way a try. I really like the way I do it now because it's nice to have the Ni spell as the fallback for the shorter casting time. Like I said though, I'll try it that way too and see how it goes.

[capitalistnihilist]

Re: How do you do it?

I do exactly what Omni described. It was somewhat difficult to get used to at first but now it is just second nature.

[Avoklex]

Re: How do you do it?

Face down, butt up......oh that is not the question? damn... j/k

Omni is correct. He presents very sound advice. ALso, remember Haste can cut your timers down plus any gear that has +haste on it. If you get into trouble it might be worth throwing on some +haste gear to cut your timers down and then swap your other gear back on.

[Chicken_Little]

Re: How do you do it?

So no one else does it like I described. In all honesty I like my way better because I have Ni to fall back on incase my recast timer on Ichi isn't up yet. The only time I really run into trouble is when there isn't enough DD and the mob takes forever to die. With a good party setup that can kill the mob fast enough I can keep shadows up all the time with my method. Like I said though, I will try Omni's way and see how it works out for me. Thanks for all the input.

[capitalistnihilist]

Re: How do you do it?

So no one else does it like I described. In all honesty I like my way better because I have Ni to fall back on incase my recast timer on Ichi isn't up yet. The only time I really run into trouble is when there isn't enough DD and the mob takes forever to die. With a good party setup that can kill the mob fast enough I can keep shadows up all the time with my method. Like I said though, I will try Omni's way and see how it works out for me. Thanks for all the input.

If you can keep shadows up with Ichi->Ichi in a good party, its quite obvious that you would also be able to do so with Ni->Ni. Also, with Ni->Ni, you spend much less time casting which translates to more swinging and more damage which translates into more hate ^^.

[Chicken_Little]

Re: How do you do it?

Hmmmm.....that's a good point. I will most definately be trying this method this weekend when I get back to my house. Such great info here. Thank you all.

[Omni]

Re: How do you do it?

capitalistnihlist makes a good point. if you are just trying to keep ichi > ichi up all the time you'll be spending the majority of your time casting. when mobs are double attacking often there is almost no way to keep ichi > ichi up. you will end up using ni > ichi cycles. so you might as well get a head start on shadows by starting with ni first. then going ni again, then ichi. you're beginning cycle should give you 11 shadows w/o much trouble since all timers will be available. 11 shadows lets you do lots. cast that dreaded jubaku, provoke, have fuidama be setup, land kurayami and hojo. not to mention, allows you to build tp, which is nins hate generating tool: landing decent dmg in evasion gear.

edit: this is just advice. its how ive done it from the getgo. if your method works for you then great. just remember you job is to 1) keep hate atleast until renkei 2) minimize effort for mages, thats what a nin tank does best. makes all mages not cap their healing skill. if your mages are healing you pretty often on avg, you might need to change things up.

edit v2: with regards to dd gear and evasion gear. i think for your avg pick up pt where job selection isnt always the best nor is player dedication, evasion gear is the safest. dd gear is great at 75, since everything is weak by then but when you are grinding your way to 75 and fighting challanging mobs, evasion gear makes your shadows last longer and keeps mages open to do other things. however! if you have an brd to land elegy and alert blm or whm to help stun/flash, full DD gear will probably be more productive than full evasion. just with pick up pts, that might not be the case.

[LegendOfKujata]

Re: How do you do it?

Yeah, same as above, Ni > Ni roxxorz my soxxorz.

Anyways, I can't think of a reason for ichi to be the first cast since... well... only benefits are override effect, and if you can't master the cancelling of shadows you're gonna need some work because you're gonna be using shadow cancel a LOT... wait...

A LOT!

...in the endgame scene because battles aren't going to be over in a short enough time for you to take care of all your shadows with just Ichi>Ichi>Ni. The Ni>Ni practice makes it easier to rely on the shadow cancel and so forth since it does get you very used to it. Only problem is occasionally you'll debuff the wrong buff when a mob cancels your jutsu.

Anyways, NIN75 here been using that method since about 39 when I started practicing methods of shadow counting and so forth, this one kept up with me really well and not only did healers applaud me, but so did nukes & DD for being able to keep hate.

Little tip to anyone who hasn't tried this yet: Get DD gear instead of fully buffing evasion. I've been able to steal hate from just about the craziest nuke happy BLM there are on kujata by relying solely on DMG to tank rather than evasion.

Remember, if SE really designed us to be a DD, we have shadows because we pull that much hate

[Chicken_Little]

Re: How do you do it?

How very true Kujata. Just out of curiousity....what are some examples of DD gear because I've pretty much concentrated on eva gear and relyed on my tricks (i.e. Provoke, WS, debuffs) to keep hate. Lemme see if I can remember what all i'm wearing at the moment. Hmmm......
Head-Emp. Pin
Gloves-Arhats +1
Body-Scorp Harness
Legs-Ninja Hakama (Next level is Arhats+1)
Feet-Arhats +1
2x Elusive Earings
Str+4 Ring
Mermaid's Ring
Evasion neck with +10 mp (Can't think of name)
Back-Amemet +1
Waist-Survival Belt
Weapons-2x Kubatowari+1
and just for kicks I have a Lightning Bow+1 in ranged for the dex
(gonna work on trying to get a bomb core)........yeesh this job costs da gils ><

Once again, I appreciate all responses and input. I'm wanting to be the best ninja I can and this thread is really helping to open my eyes to how doing things differently can work to my advantage. Thanks again.

[Avoklex]

Re: How do you do it?

Good gear, if you can it might be worthwhile to replace some of the +enimty gear you got with more attack style gear, and then swap those arhats gear for provoke to spike your hate generating a little more. accuracy is always a good thing, and snipers can only help that out to help maintain hate during your swings.

[capitalistnihilist]

Re: How do you do it?

Chicken, pretty decent gear there but if I were you I'd replace survival belt with life belt. Here is my TP setup @75:

Senju/Fudo
Bomb Core
Walhara Turban
RK Collar (acc/atk one)
Suppanomimi
Brutal Earring
AF1 Body
Dusk Gloves
Sniper'sx2
Boxer's Mantle
Life Belt
Koga Hakama
Fuma Sun-Ate

And for weaponskills I switch to this: (gimp I know)

O-hat
Spike Neck
Minuet
Brutal
Haubergeon
Enky's (1/2 items for AF+1 hands for +6dex/+6Str)
Flame Ring
Sniper's Ring
Amemet+1
Warwolf Belt
RK Breeches
AF2 Feet (7dex at night)

[Omni]

Re: How do you do it?

you're so gimp... uh huh...

nice gear capitalistnihlist... ( i hate spellilng your name btw :p)

however i think for him, a gear list at 63 might prove a bit more useful.
off the top of my head:

head: keep hairpin
body: hauby or byrine
hand: kote
leg: ryl knights breeches
feet: nothing really spectacular in terms of dd at this point so keep anything is fine. maybe enmity from arhats or nin af.
ears: minuet and coral
neck: spike necklace
back: keep amemets
waist: life belt
throwing: bombcore

this slaps on a lot of -evasion so have that brd/drk/whm/rdm be alert.