Should Utsusemi: Ni be level 38 or above?

[Caspian]

Re: Should Utsusemi: Ni be level 38 or above?

I apologize for coming off more abbrasive than I intended (was in a bad mood last night, and it was reflected in my post, I'm sorry) The pissing and moaning was more in regard to people refusing to listen to any observations, and posting one line about how nooned had addressed the issue (thoug hit already had been addressed for two pages). My problem was with the only reason I could gather from the last two pages was that people felt "less unique" b/c jobs can sub ninja at 74 and use ni. I have never heard of any ninjas at endgame complain about war/nin taking their tanking role in either xp roles or hnms etc. As a ninja I'd be far more concerned with lvls 24-37, where there is a far smaller difference in evasion, and war/nin being able to do more damage with 2x 1h axe than a ninja w/ dual katanas. I've only heard of one war/nin tank ever (Nny) being able to solidly tank an HNM. From my perception, the majority of this thread has been several people giving several good reasons why it shouldnt be changed, and one person saying those reasons arent real reasons at all (but his feeling of "non-uniqueness" is a perfectly good reason to change the requirements). Subbed ni is already slightly nerfed (though I dont feel 1 shadow loss is really much of a nerf, if anything its a mild inconvenience). It was also stated earlier that several "job defining abilities" can be subbed. For instance, I'm a ranger. Both barrage and sidewinder can be used by other jobs subbing ranger. I feel having the option of subbing ni at endgame makes things easier on all jobs. Sometimes shit goes down and those extra 3 shadows can save your ass.
Again, I'm sorry Omni for the way my previous post came across. From what I've read you've done a rather good job of presenting your opinions and defending them.

[Omni]

Re: Should Utsusemi: Ni be level 38 or above?

no needs for apologies. that was not my intention at all. its just a discussion. im happy for your input and everyone elses. it just doesnt seem like you can do anything w/o stepping on someones toes these days. : \

[ibroyles]

Re: Should Utsusemi: Ni be level 38 or above?

Just for the record Omni, I thought you handled the discussion quite well. Although I may not agree with you on the subject and maybe it would greatly frustrate me to see things played out that way, I still respect your opinion on the subject. Like you said, this is a forum for discussion. Obviously you are a player of FFXI just like myself and have your own concerns and what not that I may or may not understand. Now when others are simply stirring the pot, and not really adding to the discussion is when it frustrates me even further because then it turns from discussion into argument(kinda like political discussions, no?). I usually try to steer away from doing such things but sometimes it happens out of frustration, or lack of being able to communicate effectively what I'm thinking in writing. But w/e, not gonna hold any hard feelings or anything over a little discussion, even if it is a little "heated."

[Omni]

Re: Should Utsusemi: Ni be level 38 or above?

i get frustrated too. especially when people omit certain details in an argument or when people generalize about everything. its like 'hey, i dont do that... wtf u calling me that then?' or when people post once and never follow up on their post, or like you said, stirring the pot. i dont have any hard feelings either, just hope there will be more interesting discussions, whatever they might be.

[little ninja]

Re: Should Utsusemi: Ni be level 38 or above?

id like to see S.E give the nin job class some job abilities. so far we have gotten utes tweaked every few months. an the ability to bundle powders. sam have gotten new ones, as with thfs.

im curious what they woud do to try an be original, an not rip off other jobs.

[Caspian]

Re: Should Utsusemi: Ni be level 38 or above?

id like to see S.E give the nin job class some job abilities. so far we have gotten utes tweaked every few months. an the ability to bundle powders. sam have gotten new ones, as with thfs.

im curious what they woud do to try an be original, an not rip off other jobs.

I really cant figure out what SE wants from ninjas anymore. So, they weren't originally designed to be tanks, but due to player innovation they became great tanks. They make occasional nerfs to limit the tanking potential, but for the most part they only end up being a small nuisance or easily overcome challenge. I wonder if new ja's were added, what type of use they would have. Has SE given into the player's desires and now consider the ninja a tanking job and these nerfs merely an attempt to make them slightly less god-like in their tanking ability? Or are they an attempt to return the job back to what it was orignally intended... some sort of puller/DD? They've taken an awful lot away from the job w/o really giving it anything new. Are they waiting to see if the job has truly become balanced before giving them anything new? From what I understand it has become much more difficult to hold solid hate, especially w/o a thf and utilizing the elemental wheel. I do feel ninjas do need something new, having had an awful lot taken the last cpl years, w/ little return. However, as I previously stated and explained, I don't feel taking away subable ja's and ninjitsu's and thereby redefining certain hi-lvl jobs as a suitable alternative.
Utsusemi: San anyone?

[Lmnop]

Re: Should Utsusemi: Ni be level 38 or above?

I realize I still sound like the bitter nay-sayer.... try to look at it objectively though. I would like to see nins get a new ability, but not until after I've seen other jobs brought up. I want S-E to point all their creative juices at exactly 3 jobs: dragoon, dark knight, and thief. Maybe they'll start designing abilities for every class that are optimized by another job's abilities. something that would reinforce that certain jobs work better with a certain set of other jobs and no one job is universally better.

One thing I would like to see with ninja: I think Mijin Gakure should give the target "Amnesia." I mean, what good is a tank if he's dead and the mob still has 15% health? What if upon activating, the target basically had its entire hate list whiped clean. That way party could get a head start while nin takes mob the other way and explodes or at the very least, the secondary melee would be able to get his hate above the healer in a pinch. Well, that's my idea.... I knew there was a reason I didn't share my opinions with the general public...

[Omni]

Re: Should Utsusemi: Ni be level 38 or above?

I realize I still sound like the bitter nay-sayer.... try to look at it objectively though. I would like to see nins get a new ability, but not until after I've seen other jobs brought up. I want S-E to point all their creative juices at exactly 3 jobs: dragoon, dark knight, and thief. Maybe they'll start designing abilities for every class that are optimized by another job's abilities. something that would reinforce that certain jobs work better with a certain set of other jobs and no one job is universally better.

One thing I would like to see with ninja: I think Mijin Gakure should give the target "Amnesia." I mean, what good is a tank if he's dead and the mob still has 15% health? What if upon activating, the target basically had its entire hate list whiped clean. That way party could get a head start while nin takes mob the other way and explodes or at the very least, the secondary melee would be able to get his hate above the healer in a pinch. Well, that's my idea.... I knew there was a reason I didn't share my opinions with the general public...

i like the mijin idea a lot. mijin is such a pos 2 hr and the fact that its dependant on hp is also really lame. when you are in a dire situation, you're probably injured and almost dead. using ur 2hr when you have say... 100 hp and doing 38 dmg to the mob is so pointless. why blow up when you're healthy? makes no sense.

utsu: san would be interesting. i think giving it 5 shadows and a long cast time wouldnt be really fair. but as someone posted in some other thread, long time ago, what about if it was like a 1-2 shadow utsusemi but it was instant cast time? more of like a quick patch (think ni -> ichi timers down) or emergency utsusemi?