Is Goblin Rush Broken?

[Macht]

Re: Is Goblin Rush Broken?

Well as far as the shadows being taken you can find it under here: Sep. 14, 2004 Update

As for the Goblin Rush should be classified under:

The number of lost copy images varies.
This normally occurs when the caster is hit with an area attack such as Whirl of Rage. The number of copy images lost (and extra damage taken) is calculated by taking into account the potency of the attack as well as the caster's current ninjutsu skill level.

So if the Goblin Rush removes all shadows every time without failure I would say that it must give a good accuracy boost that you just can't avoid. Much like the Ranger's Eagle Eye Shot and the Thief's Sneak Attack, they give a great accuracy boost (Still possible for them to miss, but not all to likely).

In either case it is something you can just send once as something you thought was odd to the development team at SE to look at. If doesn't get fixed then it's likely intentional that the gob is suppose to be that good with goblin rush.

[Ozymandis]

Re: Is Goblin Rush Broken?

It's not the accuracy boost. Attacks like Sickle Slash, Beatdown, Screwdriver, Rhino Attack, etc. will always take a shadow. They're done just like a ranged attack, by which you will always lose a shadow. Now Goblin Rush has been made into a 3 hit TP attack like Jet Stream, it sucks, a lot. I was always aggravated by this whole thing anyways, it would be a lot easier to tank if you could avoid these attacks, which are sometimes quite inaccurate (Sickle Slash) but when they strip shadows and are followed by Double Attacks, can be highly annoying.

Let me rephrase that.

TP moves that strip mulitple shadows strip ALL shadows if they miss (Majority of those are AOEs which is why I said that, though there are a few that are single-targeted like Goblin Rush, that Manta move (Crossattack I think?), ect.).

For instance, Whirl of Rage. I can cast a fresh batch of shadows, it uses Whirl of Rage and says "The Decorative Weapon uses Whirl of Rage, but misses Nny" yet all my shadows are gone. This isn't a one-time thing, I've EXPed a shit load on Decos and this pretty often.

It's just the way the game does messages in that situation. If it got 2 shadows, it would say "Two of Nny's shadows absorb the attack and disappear." When it gets all of them down, it'll give you the miss, but it didn't come up against your evasion to have actually missed. Seems stupid to me, lacking in consistency, but SE doesn't have any urgency to change this.

[ZQM]

Re: Is Goblin Rush Broken?

No, that isn't true. I've recasted a fresh batch and it strips all shadows, and it will say 3 of Nny's shadows dissapear.

I was just leveling my NIN today in Sky, here's an example of what I mean:

[Balfree]

Re: Is Goblin Rush Broken?

maybe it misses YOU but hits all the shadows? ever tought of that.. ?

[Macht]

Re: Is Goblin Rush Broken?

maybe it misses YOU but hits all the shadows? ever tought of that.. ?

Yes, that was what I was thinking Balfree. Just didn't mention it because seemed like something someone would scream bs about. The way I see it makes sense that the following could happen.

3 Shadows
Goblin Rush
Shadows Removed
Goblin Rush hits (Damage adjusted)

3 Shadows
Goblin Rush
Shadows Removed
Goblin Rush misses

In either case I think as far as how the shadows evade an attack it must be factoring it on Ninjitsu and not your Evasion. So likely that your shadows don't quite get the same Evasion capablilities that your NIN will have in those situations.

[Gisele]

Re: Is Goblin Rush Broken?

As far as my experience with goblins which I try avoid these days, no matter the level of said goblin, goblin rush RARELY misses, and if it doesn't, it will strip 3 shadows if they're available and deal no damage, or if you have less than 3, will strip shadows and deal what appears to be full goblin rush damage as though all 3 hits connected.

Whirl of Rage is quite different which I (and most other lvl 75's) have an abundance of experience with. I have evaded the entire Whirl of Rage COUNTLESS times, and I have never, not one time, had my shadows stripped in the process. That WS does 3 evasion checks on you, whether you have Utsusemi up, have stone skin, or have mad cow's disease, it really makes no difference. It checks your evasion 3 times, and removes shadows accordingly. Very rarely am I hit by all 3 checks, generally resulting in only 0-2 shadows lost provided I have that many available. If I have only one shadow remaining and more than one of the eva checks gets by me, I lose my remaining shadow, take partial damage, and am stunned, just as it should work.

While of Rage is not even similar to the mechanics of Goblin Rush, which is, in my opinion, a broken WS as was stated. Either it misses completely (VERY rare, though lose no shadows in the process), or it connects whereas if you have 3 or more shadows remaining, it will strip 3, leaving you otherwise uneffected, or with 2 or less shadows, will deal full 3-hit damage to you.

Similar multi-hit, non-AOE weapon skills, such as Jet Stream, do not have this 'cheat' factor that goblins have. Jet Stream does a 3-hit evasion check on you, just as Whirl of Rage does, and strips shadows accordingly. If I fight a citadel bat, for instance, at lvl 75, and it uses Jet Stream, with my far superior evasion compared to it's accuracy (since it is so much lower-level), I am very rarely hit by any of the 3 Jet Stream hits, resulting in zero loss of shadows. At times it will get lucky and strip some, but not a definite 3 such as goblin rush would do.

-Gisele

[Macht]

Re: Is Goblin Rush Broken?

Well with Gisele posts it sounds like a test of seeing what a full goblin rush without shadows on and with 1 hitting and 2 hitting is in order to see if it's really adjusting the damage or not. Fun test sounds like a tough one to get done right.

[little ninja]

Re: Is Goblin Rush Broken?

i just saw goblin rush take 1 shadow an the message came up that it missed me. i know i had only 1 shadow left cause i was on NI. getting rdy to go to ichi. it attacked me an stripped my 3rd shadow. then went into goblin rush. i have also seen a low lvl gob gblin rush me an take all 3 shadows.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Is Goblin Rush Broken?

i just saw goblin rush take 1 shadow an the message came up that it missed me.

This has been my experience. It misses me and takes three shadows, it hits me and takes three shadows. Regardless of mob level compared to my evasion. It's either broken or just insanely tweaked but with shadows being removed even by a miss I'm inclined to say it is well and truly broken.