Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

[mrmong]

So ya, I have been leveling Nin lately, having lots trouble holding hate. Pre patch...it wasnt so bad, only would lose hate due to SC at start of fights or what not, but after patch I do notice a problem.

I was at Valley of sorrows at 57 ( think I was too low for V of sorrow, but the rest of the PT was higher level then me) and i could not hold hate whatsoever. PT consisted of RNG/NIN SAM DRG RDM WHM. With the new RNG nerf, Rng stood afar and hate was going everywhere, and i had no thf to plant hate back on me. The raptors were running toward RNG and mages after a sidewinders or barrage use.
Not only that but i could rarely keep shadows up, Raptor's chop rush/double attack killed shadows very quickly....REALLY SUCKED!...lol...not to mention the 2 Perytons we tried ><...went very badly

Yesterday i had a pretty decent PT, yet again hate was a problem, not as bad as Valley of sorrow pt. It was RDM, BLM, WHM, DRK/WAR, RNG/NIN @ Gustav Tunnel on gobs. For the most part I have didnt have too many problems holding hate until Skillchain. RNG again took too much hate from Sidewinder's causing gobs/crabs to go crazy flying to mages and rng. Shadows werent too bad to keep up except when gobs did gobbie rush...

Well I dont know wtf im doing wrong but its driving me nuts, my gear is decent enough, i think i should be holding hate well enough( SH, AF Legs, dodge ear/Eris, mermaid/Savtte ring/Yoto+1)

Well any advise will be welcome, i do hope this hate issue is due from lack of a thf in pt, or NIN patch.

[Icemage]

Re: Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

Are you using elemental ninjutsu? Casting only Utsusemi + Provoke appears to be insufficient for holding hate post-update.


Icemage

[mrmong]

Re: Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

yup, para slow and blind, sometimes twice during fights....even 2-3 elementals

[Icemage]

Re: Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

I don't understand. WHM and RDM in party, so I'm assuming someone is Hasting you. RDM and you both flinging Paralyze and Slow at the enemies, plus probably Blind/Kurayami, you shouldn't be having that kind of problem keeping shadows up. Are you just not evading many hits? I don't remember ever seeing ninjas losing that many shadows against Velociraptors. Perytons yes due to triple attack as well as multi-hit WS and Stormwind. Velociraptors were dead simple with NIN tanks though.

At the very least the WHM should have been helping you out with the odd Flash to help you cast Utsusemi : Ichi. Your gear has plenty of +enmity, I don't see anything you're doing wrong at this point, except maybe being too skimpy on elemental damage ninjutsu.

Ideally under those circumstances you should let the RDM handle Paralyze so you can take the 4-second Jubaku: Ichi out of your attack rotation and replace it with a faster-casting elemental ninjutsu.


Icemage

[mrmong]

Re: Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

think i was just too low for valley of sorrows....57 is good for cape terrigan still, and ya i noticed the rdm wasnt doing any debuffs at all, that and i wasnt evading many attack.

[Rai|Kye]

Re: Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

hmmm i had the same problem with my mule after patch but then i bought 2 of those enmity +3 earrings an o-kote and wear the JSE and it works.

the elemental wheel is really important up to 60 then it gets resisted most of the time.

[Cade]

Re: Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

I hate those goddamn birds.

[mrmong]

Re: Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

I hate those goddamn birds.

/nod

lol well i dinged 60 yesterday, all i can say is at 60 im loooooooving NIN. you really notice the attack bonus /war gives you. Busted out a 508 blade jin on third use of the ws ^^

hate doesnt seem to be a problem any more either, altho i did have a THF in pt, the thf did not land sata on me correctly most of the time and sata Viperbites were usually gimped cuz the rng couldnt turn the mob the majority of the time.


im still using Yoto+1's tho sucks most of the katana's at 50-60 suck or are just way too expensve

[lionx]

Re: Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

the elemental wheel is really important up to 60 then it gets resisted most of the time.

Um if you dont mind, may i ask why is it not important up to 60...? If you keep spamming it you will still get hate right..? So why would you not want to keep spamming ele wheel?

[kuu]

Re: Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

Ninja's seems to hate valley of sorrows while DDs love it :sweat:

Really can't be helped when it has many multi attacks, but takes 1.5x damage to anything else around.

It's easier if you have utsusemi melees or non defenseless DDs of some form or another. so you can bounce it around with "Full attack" brewing.

Though I suppose that's harder to ask then anything in pickup pts.

It's just that kind of monster...

[Caspian]

Re: Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

Question for lower lvl ninja stuff:
My ninja is 25 and I'm about to lvl it again. Will this patch affect me much? I use all the debuffs I can, but with the ichi line of ele's taking so long to cast and doing less dmg than one swing from a katana I never saw a point. Should I start using them now or will I not be really affected at this lvl?

[Rai|Kye]

Re: Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

yes this this update will affect you. better get a co-tank, you shouldnt solo-tank until level 40 anyways

2x ninja or Ninja and war/nin a pretty good tanks at that level

[Arris]

Re: Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

Question for lower lvl ninja stuff:
My ninja is 25 and I'm about to lvl it again. Will this patch affect me much? I use all the debuffs I can, but with the ichi line of ele's taking so long to cast and doing less dmg than one swing from a katana I never saw a point. Should I start using them now or will I not be really affected at this lvl?

ohh yes my nin is 29 hate flys around the whole time >.< couldn't even peel hate off the whm at times. And when the pld was going down all i could do wave goodbye. I remember provoking twice before my pld died ;-; . (I tried casting everything nin tool i had >.>)

[DarkHero]

Re: Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

i find that just plain attacking seems to give me less trouble than spammign the elemental wheel... my ninjutsu is capped at at times the mob would resist it making it do only 8 or so dmg. During which i could have had 2 attack turns. Some tips my friend gave me to hold hate w/o a thf

move as close to the puller and voke as soon as you can so that your timer will reset faster (I used to pull myself lol that helped a bit) immediately kuraymi and engage. then hojo and ws. Your voke should be up by now and you should be fine for most of the fight.

I was in the valley last night with a war and mnk (who were very well equipped) and they were totally stressing me out with taking hate. The mnk would take hate with regular melee attacks at a few points but that tactic helped a bit.

[crowly]

Re: Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

Lionx, at higher levels ninjas melee damage does more than the elemental wheel. That's why some of us stop using it.

At 59 with moldavite equipped I'll do 19-39-80 damage per nuke. With a static bard, my damage stays around 30 per hit. If the mob is low IT/VT I usually do 40-60 per hit. And katanas can critical nukes just resist or don't.(sushi patch...misses aren't that common)

Weapon skill damage for me is 150-400 with Blade: Chi too...Blade: Jin should jump around 400/500.(about same damage as the full wheel in one ws)