So. How harsh does the enmity change seem?

[Lmnop]

Re: So. How harsh does the enmity change seem?

Jet Stream has always taken 3 shadows. Ozymandius(maybe?) has a post from like 8 months ago where he was talking about how all ninja should tank triple bats and get used to losing 1-3 shadows at a time.

Rai makes the claim that losing shadows lowers enmity more than getting hit. I'm not going to say you're wrong, but I'm not going to believe that without some evidence of testing. In my times as war/nin, I haven't noticed too much of a difference in my ability to hold hate. I do believe the hate falls off faster when I start actually taking damage, but I also take much more damage than a pld. I can't imagine it being much different for nins.

[lionx]

Re: So. How harsh does the enmity change seem?

I do believe the hate falls off faster when I start actually taking damage

I too believe this is so, i have no evidence but i do feel like i lose alot more hate when i get hit O_o

[Kutch]

Re: So. How harsh does the enmity change seem?

After the nurf, having a NIN or MNK in the PT (low 60's) means the PT depends on a THF to keep the NIN hated.

Someone mentioned that SATA for other jobs than THF main "only" give the guaranteed critical, but damage multipliers are far less than for a THF main. I can't really claim this to be true or false, since I really and honestly don't know if it's true.

What I do know, from observation, and as whm, is that if I have a NIN in the PT, I need a THF as well for hate control, as otherwise, the NIN has to be pretty awesome to hold hate over monks in particular, and sometimes even dual wielding warriors.

Compare a great PLD to a great NIN, and the difference is clear as water, the PLD simply does not loose hate, and that at a lower effort than the NIN, which has to use a whole bag of tricks to keep the mob glued to him. As far as the "nerf" goes, I haven't really noticed a big difference. Both keep their hate if they know what they're supposed to be doing, but again, add an insane monk to the PT, and the NIN struggles alot more than your PLD would.

Just my 2cp.

[Gyotsha]

Re: So. How harsh does the enmity change seem?

I havn't really noticed that much of a change in nin. Mine's only level 34 so I havn't experienced much, but when partying with ninjas as thief, I havn't really noticed anything. So I'd say that the changes had low effect.

[Rai|Kye]

Re: So. How harsh does the enmity change seem?

make a PT with this setup. Nin/war war/nin mnk/war blm whm rdm
and you will see the mnk tanking 90% of the time without using provoke once.
thf makes all the difference these days...
u cant spam ninjutsus @34 so im really interrested how that party setup would work.

[lionx]

Re: So. How harsh does the enmity change seem?

Um if you are 34 with that set up you should be dual blink tanking with the WAR like you should without Utsusemi Ni..

[Fire]

Re: So. How harsh does the enmity change seem?

Never really noticed the utsu enmity nerf untill I recently started leveling BLM to 75. I dunno, my nin is 75 and I never gimped myself in anyway when leveling it. But now on BLM, I get to see other NIN's who use utsu only, or use AF instead of something like Arhats or Scorp harness. Arhats is cheap, even the HQ is still fairly cheap compared to some other HQ item's. The HQ pants are like 500k on Bismarck. I think just alot of people think that they can gimp by leveling ninja.

[Rai|Kye]

Re: So. How harsh does the enmity change seem?

Um if you are 34 with that set up you should be dual blink tanking with the WAR like you should without Utsusemi Ni..

you are missing the point somehow ><

I know that there is not much difference in tanking with arhats etc but if you are level 50 with no enmity+ equip you will have to spam wheel like crazy to hold any hate. that is not my expirience but a fact. it wasnt like that before the update.
So please stop claiming the enmity nerv hasnt changed anything because its not true ><

i know ninja can still hold hate and with good thief you can do a good job but it became much harder.
again im talking about pre-arhats !