NIN Theory

[Rinsaku]

I have been reading posts on NIN being a powerful DD when using there elemental wheel mixed with INT buffs and for added effect a BLM sub, but this lead me to do some thinking.

When you look at WHM you know that its for healing, and not for much damage dealing.
WHen you look at WAR you know that its mainly for defense

Mix these two jobs and you have PLD, great at defense, light curing, but pitiful attack power.

Now at the opposite end of the spectrum, you have NIN, which
I can only gather to be a mix between

BLM which is known for its damage dealing magic spells
Now this next one is where it gets tricky, would it be THF for its evasion? Maybe MNK because of the double attack similarity?

In most other jobs, you can find out there usage and definition from there AF armor, or even there 2hr. (MNK haste = Hundred Fist , THF Evasion = Perfect Dodge , WHM Healing = Benediction etc etc) Now, with NIN's 2hr being a suicide with no XP loss, its pretty hard to determine exactly what its use is from that 2hr, besides being a PT member that can say "Train? Link? So what."
But when you look at all there JSE you see no +evasion attributes (at least from what I've seen, correct me if im wrong because i could be overlooking something) So that should take out the THF sub possibility, if using this 2hr/AF Job use determination method. I dont think you should sub BLM because you dont need too, plenty of +INT gear to improve your damage.
If you look at Kirin's Osode, the stats on it, and who can wear it. All DD, except.. NIN? This also leads me to belive that NIN was meant for a mixture of haste+int+att for fast somewhat strong attacks, your throwing shuriken for additional attacks, and your elemental wheel for additional damage, making us a pretty formidable DD, but what would we sub? Sure we can sub MNK to use there haste gear, but thats not until later on that you can get decent haste gear besides the purple belt (My MNK is only 15 so I dont follow there gear very much, so if theres other haste items between 15-30 I dont know about it) Basically the purpose of this thread is to see if my theory holds *any* water whatsoever, I'm sure im not the only one who has noticed this. Also I would like any additional insight on making NIN a DD, because I don't think it was intended for tanking, and if it was it is seriously gimped, because sure it has utsusemi, but if that drops, its defense is poor, and its attack is also poor, making it almost useless without Utsusemi (Apart from the elemental wheel) and why else would it have the Dual Wield delay improvements, obviously haste is a factor for NIN. Please post any thoughts you have on this

[Koroco]

Well protect you from any future flaming that you might get.
Couple of facts:
A. NIN can wear Kirin Osode
B. NIN can't wear any of the MNK Belts. It's MNK ONRY!

[Pounce]

I believe S-E did state that NIN's original role was as a DD.

But players found out how to work NIN as an effective tank, and S-E seems to be happy with it, more or less.

All the better, IMHO, since the last thing FFXI needs is yet another DD.

[Rinsaku]

I know NIN can wear Kirins Osode, please reread that section to find out exactly why I mention it.

Also I know MNK's can only wear MNK gear, hence the possiblity of a MNK sub. But only haste gear MNK's get that NIN's dont is the Brown, Black, Purple belts, if im not mistaken, and well I would rather have a life belt in that slot at those levels anyway so MNK is most likely out of the question. And you say it doesnt need another DD, I think it does, if thats what it was designed for. ^^

[Pounce]

And you say it doesnt need another DD, I think it does, if thats what it was designed

I'm sure all those DRKs, DRGs, MNKs, THFs, SAMs, etc. who suffer from LFG syndrome wholeheartedly agree with you =P.

Not to derail the thread, but it's fairly obvious FFXI's job balance is somewhat skewed due to an overwhelming number of DDs vs support jobs. Sure NIN can be a DD, but the fact that NIN is a great tank is a huge benefit for the game as a whole IMHO.

The game does not *need* more DDs, and quite frankly, it would actually do better with fewer.

[Tifa]

Damage: NIN/RNG with a gun, or maybe lots of shurikens. NIN's ranged attack is actually very very powerful if you've ever seen it.
Tank: NIN/WAR, NIN/BLM if you have millions and millions of gil to blow
Farm: NIN/THF

[Rinsaku]

Actually NIN have only slightly above average marksmanship and below average archery, excelling in throwing though. So obviously RNG is out. ^^

[Dtec]

I think there was an interview somewhere where a rep from SE was interviewed and said Ninjas were intended to be a melee and emergency tank. Think about that, emergency tank... tank... need provoke... warrior subjob.

[ZQM]

WHen you look at WAR you know that its mainly for defense

Actually, when I tank, I normally have the least amount of DEF in my PT (Including the mages). And this is including pre-74 with only one Utsusemi. When you look at WAR, you look at power and versatility.

Actually NIN have only slightly above average marksmanship and below average archery, excelling in throwing though. So obviously RNG is out. ^^

Well, NIN/RNG is a good combo 60+. However, a properly equiped NIN/WAR could outdamage a NIN/RNG.

If you look at Kirin's Osode, the stats on it, and who can wear it. All DD, except.. NIN?

Actually BRD can equip it, and BRD is far from a damage dealer.



As far as your topic, a job is only what it equipment allows it to be. A DRK can be an amazing tank, this is the truth. However, a DRK needs the proper equipment to be an amzing tank, a DRK in complete DD equipment cannot be a tank. A PLD/NIN can be one of the best damage dealers in the game, this is the truth. Company Sword + Joyeuse, full out ATK equipment me...hell, PLD has the third highest STR in teh game IIRC.

The only thing that determines the jobs path is what equipment the player choses to use.

[LadyPeorth]

Originally posted by ZQM
The only thing that determines the jobs path is what equipment the player choses to use.

And what will get them decent parties

[Niland]

your (the thread starter) post really isn't clear at all.

i think what you are doing is reading too far into the game-design and trying to make connections that aren't there.

[Macht]

WAR if you are looking at them are multi-versitile. They can be a Tank as well as a DD, they are capable of using any known weapon skill with better proficiany then any other job (Meaning a WAR can use a Staff better then a RNG can, not comparing use to a WHM or BLM).

RNG if you are considering it for NIN don't forget it offers an Accuracy/Range Accuracy Bonuses also considering that NINs get to use the Shurikens Fuma and Nokizuma being the best (If I remember right one of those two is Rare, still wonder why though). Those Shurikens have a crazy damage rating, they are over twice the amount that the next strongest weapon would have (Excluding a Ranger using the Culverin +1 and Cannon Shells, because 12 ammo is more for of an ending shot then constant damage).

Then again since NINs have such great throwing skills you can go with NIN/WAR and using those strong Shurikens your damage will probably match a RNG or even beat them if you use the Shurikens like they were water, but then that's a lot of money used >.>

[Omni]

SE really needs to make it more plausible for nin to use their throwing skill. with ninja tekko and war shinobi gi, thats already +15 throwing skill but the fact that shurikens are not economical unless youre using them for special battles (bcnm, hnm, missions). i am speaking from my server experience, darksteel is at a premium and has been for a long time. this makes manji shruikens non existent. i dont think a stack has even gone up for sale yet. in addition, the 2 special shurkiens at the end are 12 stack and rare... whats up with that? for nin to be a natural dd, rather than subbing rng and using a few select guns, they really need to allow us a better way at acqiuring

i totally believe that SE has accomdated the fact that nin are tanks. they slowing introduced gear that helps with tanking... first with the 25% spell interupt katana and now with the lvl 71 spell interupt/enmity gear. i just feel if they wanted us to use our throwing more they'd give us more chances to utilize it :\

but then again, theres the balance issue. if they let us have that, we can enfeeble, elemental debuff, tank and damage. *shrug*

[Ivadell]

having capped throwing is like having capped parry, you successfully work as a good nin without it, but I mean how awsome would be to be able to hit Kirin with your Jr. Muskt. Chakram +2. XD

[Mephisto]

what I want to know is, why are you trying to find things wrong with ninja? It IS the best tanking job in the game - hands down... Turning it into some subpar DD is a pretty odd thing to want to do :sweat: