HNM Tanking 75 War/Nin vs. 75 Nin

[Burzum]

I asked this question in the War forum as well so I'd like to hear both sides of the spectrum.

OK I've come to a bit of a crossroad here... I've lvled both War and Ninja to 37 and I'm looking toward the distant future.... So before I started either past sub job lvls I wanted to get some feedback on the endgame of both. I've got a good grasp of what each to lvls 1-74. Being Galka I want to TANK HNM so which job is best suited once the exp grind is over. On the Ninja boards all the HNM tanking NIN seem to indicated that their gear is Haste > Damage % Reduction > HP > VIT based. Since War's can wear most of the same Haste % items as Ninja and have a large HP/VIT, DEF advantage over Ninja I'm curious to their performance as a tank on HNM's I don't hear alot of talk about War/Nin's being Main Tanks so I'm looking for more info.

So basically I'm trying to determine what is it about Ninja that makes it superior to War/Nin @ 75 tanking HNM's and I know it's not evasion... as it's been stated quite a bit in many topics that Even Ninja's don't evade GOD lvl HNM's.


btw here is link to War Forum topic:
http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/sho...threadid=51339

[RaidenDoria]

you have a way better chance at tanking at 75 being a nin than you would being a war. nin has A- in evade plus there equipment (for the most part) is tailored for them to be a much better tank. Plus high lv nin gear is absoluetly amazing. nin = tank (possibly DD at higher lvs with all the haste equip and kirin osode. But not DD when it comes to HNM.). You'll also be much more usefull in Dynamis

[Omni]

not from personal experience, but from reading and talking to a taru nin on remora who tanks gods and kites kirin. (there is a thread on killing ifrit about ninja evasion vs gods, site seems to be down right now) he explains to me that it IS about evasion. his setup is something like this...

such as: wind staff, melody earrings, evasion torque, seiryu's kote, sh, batcape, survival belt, breeze rings, etc.

puts himself into a tanking pt of: brd x2, nin x2, whm, rdm.

double march and mambo songs.

he explains to me that hes able to tank gods w/o getting hit. actually told me that byakko at one time missed im 13 times in a row. going through the thread on ki, other ninjas concur that this is possible.

as i said, this isnt from direct or even indirect personal experience for that matter. maybe some other ninjas that have been doing this can further explain.

EDIT here is the link, w/ screenshots showing that gods DO miss and evasion IS the difference.
KI Nin vs gods evasion thread

[spencer]

well, being a nin, i can only give u accounts of my own personal experience. from what i know, a sub /nin has gimped utsu, where ni only gives 3 shadows instead of 4. that right there is the major drawback for wars trying to tank, especially gods.

nin has higher eva and can equip more eva+ gear than war. for example, tanking byakko, i can easily duo tank it with another nin both going all out on eva (byakko has terrible acc). i suppose a war/nin can also, but i guarantee he would require a lot more curing and maybe 2 more war/nins for backup. genbu on the other hand, i choose to go with damage reduction and haste gear (genbu has high acc). a nin can solo tank genbu easily with that eq.

basically, a war/nin would have a hard time tanking gods without good support from whm and smns, and a few backup tanks, and a nin can pretty much tank solo with mambox2 or marchx2.

[kumaeru]

IMO on hard HNM or gods like Byakko due to his triple attack, best for Nin to go -Physical damage taken, and +vit.

Nin in my LS, has Full Arhats+1, Harness+1, Behe Mantle+1, Peacock charm, and I think used to have Speed belt too, and he really is one of the better tanks I've seen in a long time. It works really well, and he can keep hate on most things except a suicidal Rng :x. It's also very helpful when tanking CoP Dragons as well, like Jormungand.

On easier things like Behemoth or Adamantoise, or the easier gods, I agree that +eva does help a lot. Wind stave and harness+1 etc.

[kumaeru]

Originally posted by spencer
basically, a war/nin would have a hard time tanking gods without good support from whm and smns, and a few backup tanks, and a nin can pretty much tank solo with mambox2 or marchx2.

War's are very capable of tanking Genbu and Suzaku easily solo. Seiryu is hard due to the 100fists SP which I know Plds do great on, and Byakko is hard due to triple attack. All War needs is stunners to make sure to stun Ga spells and its easy. Utsusemi just eats up the lvl 4 and ancient spells.

A good Nin can solo tank Byakko while given paralyna's exactly when needed, and not have others rip hate away. ie. constant 1000+ Chi Blasts or Spamming Rng's.

[spencer]

i'm sure every ls has their own preference when tanking gods. i just know what works best for me, because i have tried both blink tank methods ( eva vs dr/haste).

i've tried dr/haste eq on byakko and yes, byakko doesn't hit very hard with -50% damage, but you are still getting hit, meaning you are losing hate, meaning the mages have to cure. especially with byakko spamming diaga and paralyzga, often the nin is left without shadows. all out eva is makes the fight much easier and the mages much happier. triple attacks don't mean shit if its missing 15 times in a row:p

i'm not gonna argue that wars can't tank gods solo, i'm sure they can, i'm just gonna say that its much easier and safer to let the nins do it. if you're gonna blink tank a god, nin > war.

[ZQM]

I solo-tank Aspid easily, and the reason I solo-tank is because the NINs couldn't take hate away. Joyeuse is non-stop attack with Haste and March*2, allowing for fast TP build for Spirit's spam with +18 enmity on the whole time.

As for Gods, I parsed a Suzaku fight not to long ago where I was tanking. Damage was:

Nny=1288
Zutheria=1208 (DRK with Ridill)
Caine=1084 (THF)
Havocdemon=2209 (BLM)
Kris=1884 (BLM)
Nivlakian=1686 (BLM)
Sydok=1341 (BLM)

The RNGs were doing 4k+ damage, though that would be expect from them against a bird.

NIN can blink tank better (And solo tank better, though I don't see much point in solo-tanking. It doesn't matter how good you are, if you have bad luck with something you will die), but WAR will dish out more damage. Something nobody ever tried for some reason is an offensive tank on Gods. My experience with it so far is amazing and I'm nowhere close to perfect gear for it.

[Niland]

Re: HNM Tanking 75 War/Nin vs. 75 Nin

Originally posted by Burzum
So basically I'm trying to determine what is it about Ninja that makes it superior to War/Nin @ 75 tanking HNM's and I know it's not evasion... as it's been stated quite a bit in many topics that Even Ninja's don't evade GOD lvl HNM's.
[/URL]

ninjas do evade HNM fine (esp with mambo^^)

in my experience ninjas are only significantly better than warriors when you want to kill minor HNMs in a small PT.

both jobs are fun and needed in endgame events.

[Twolves]

Anything in the game can be eva tanked or defense tanked by nin.

For most of the harder stuff i usually use arhat gi+1,Arhat jinpachi+1,earth staff,and jelly ring... with this setup i take less damage per hit then paladins in full koenig on :|


War cant keep up in hate from what i've seen if ninja is spamming debuffs on the HNM there fighting. War take more damage per hit then ninja also when tanking o.o

[Kesai]

I got the opportunity to tank byakko the other day, with the great support I got from everyone that was there I was able to tank him the entire fight . Tank pt setup was nin, nin, brd, brd, whm, rdm. For equip I basicly just used everything that would give +evasion and macro'd in warwolf belt and mermaid ring for provoke and warcry. Next time I'd like to see if I can sneak in some more +enmity, but since I'm still a rookie at tanking gods I thought it would be best for me to keep things as simple as possible until I get more confident.

[Burzum]

I thank everyone for your opinions I'm def. going Ninja as even though it is a more expensive path I think the dynamic play of Ninja will keep me more interested than the primarily DD with occational Tanking role that lvling up War would offer.


PS: Lately I've been working on crafts would anyone have a suggestion for MJ Ninja? Something that could help reduce costs and help in the $$$ department.


Atm I have 60 Cooking, 60 Alchemy, 45 Leather, 57 Fishing, 20 Smithing, 20 Goldsmithing, and I'm prob. in the singles for everything else.

[Omni]

imo the big killers on your pocket when it comes to supplies is shihei and the enfeebling powders.

kaginawa goes for about 20k a stack on my server and jusatsu goes for around 15k. sairui-ran is around 6-8k.

i usually goto norg everyone in a while and buy elemental powders from the npc. if no one has bought from her in a while the prices can be pretty cheap. 3400k a stack is as low as ive seen it go.

kaginawa is cloth?
shihei is wood
i think another is alchemy but not positive.

[Dtec]

definately take woodworking to level 60. after the shihei prices went up to a ridiculous 8k/stack here in ifrit, i decided to take woodworking to 60. now i can HQ and can make about 5-7 stacks for only 30k worth of materials. that's only about 5-6k/stack, i'm saving alot of money.