NIN Advice Please

[Zempten]

Okay, new questions^^

1) I was looking at the armor department and I'm wearing Bone +1, well I see that Beetle +1 is basically the same stats, so do I have to upgrade? I mean they both give +1 to evasion which is the main reason why we used it right?

2) Also I am wearing Silver Earrings +1, which is basically the same as Mythrial Earrings, so I don't ahve to change that either as well?

3) What exactly is the difference between a HQ nomad's mantle and a regular Nomad's Mantle? I have the regular one, I'm just wondering if I need to get the HQ one

4) The Katana issue.................Well I'm using the Suzume right now, which is Damage: 11 Delay: 190. I looked at the up coming katanas and well I see a

Ganko:
Damage: 12 Delay 227 Lvl: 20

Hibari:
Damage: 13 Delay 190 Lvl: 24

or

Hibari +1:
Damage: 14 Delay 185 Lvl:24

Busuto:
Damage: 16 Delay:232 Lvl: 26 Effect: Poison

or

Busto +1:
Damage: 17 Delay: 227 Lvl: 26

Fukuro:
Damage: 15 Delay 190 Lvl: 28 STR: +1 AGI: +1

Well, I'm currenly 22 and I am personally a fond type of fast attacking weapons, but what I want to know is if that is okay? I mean is it okay if I go with the katanas that are more based towards the delay rather then the damage? As of now I use two suzumes, but I plan on using...

2 Hibari +1 at 24
2 Fukuro at 28

Is this an okay path?The reason why I don't use the Busto is because the delay is long and well I personally don't like long delay. Also I doubt the additional effect is going to kick off as often as I want it to and I doubt that just by adding poison I'm getting any more aggro, what are your thoughts?

Thanks for all the help ^^

[Thegod]

nomad's mantle +1 gives 1 more agi, and 1 more def, nothing else, not worth it really, unless your an agi freak like me.

Umm, i upgraded to beetle at 21, for a couple reason, it cost about exactly the same, and you will get hit oaccsional and that added def (especially from the body piece) is kinda needed, but if your 22 already, i'd try to hold off till 25, alot of exspensive gear at that level.

I used the level 16 +1 katas till 24 and then the +1 katans witch i still have now (25 nin still, been leveling rng alot, and doing mission genkeis and AFs)

at 25, your best set of gear comes along, the federation gear mixed in with kingdom trousers. <---with that you'll have all the evasion you ever wanted plus some accuracy and ranged attack.

I'd really worry about getting an emp. hairpin, that +10 evasion will get you through the jungles smoothy i hear, and with double attacking mandys i glad i have one.

i'd dump those earrings, for shield earrings, yeah the evasion is nice, but it takes away from attack power, and you need all the attack to keep hate you can have...I mean at 29 you get dodge earrings witch you can wear dam near forever..

[Grizzlebeard]

Took my ninja from 23 to 30 at the weekend and despite having plus 25 evasion and maxed defensive skills I was still getting beaten to a pulp by mandys in Yhoator. I kind of expected to see a better return for the massive amount of gil I pumped into my gear and have to admit I thought I was hard pressed paying 6-9k a stack for boiled crab but forking out for powders, namely 18k for slow, left me wondering just how much gil I'll be pumping into this job before 37 when I'll be able to tank efficiently. Without Utsusemi: Ni this job feels really cranky. Hate holding is very weak up to 30 with other damage classes around and the fact that the debuffs take so long to cast I was finding the dual-hitting mandys were dropping my shadows the following attack and any neg status effects I was trying to land on them were getting perma disprupted. I kind of hoped the hate generated by missed attacks and attacks absorbed by blink would have given me more of an aggro lock than it did. :sweat:

[Thegod]

^^ wow, plz give me a gear run down, as i had planed to unleash my fulls federation gear/emp hairpin/capped parrying and evasion in the jungles and be somewhat of a decent tank, let me know if thats not gonna be spossible, because if not then im onlly keeping the gear that adds accuracy, and subing out everything else for chain+1 gear for more def.

I decide at the last min wheatevr im gonna level rng or nin, it just depends on witch area is more camped, and a quick /sea tells me that.

if qufim has a bunch of people but CN doesnt, then its straight to CN (yeah i love taking ym rng to CN, the flys get hurt really bad my my ranged attacks.

[Grizzlebeard]

Head: Emp Hairpin (+10 evasion)
Ears: x2 Dodge (+6 evasion)
Waist: Warrior's Belt +1
Fingers: x2 Reflex
Body: Federation (+3 evasion)
Legs: Kingdom (+3 evasion)
Feet: Federation
Hands: Federation
Back: Night Cape (+3 Evasion)

At +25 evasion normal IT's, not high evasion / high defense, were beating me like a red-headed step-Taru. It seemed to be better in Yuhtunga Jungle but once we crossed into Yhoator I noticed a significant difference in hate holding and damage taken. There were many times when my hps were in the red but that was partly due to the whm saying he had "lag issues".

I'm kind of concerned how I'll survive Garlaige and CN. Guess I'll just take the role of DD up until 37.

[Thegod]

well concidering garl has no many's, and neither does CN, im sure it'll be a little better, but dam switch nomads for that night cape and thats pretty much my gear set....hrmm

i as a mithra dont have that much more agi at these low levels, no i am seriously concidering getting my gil back for that exspensive arse federation gear, and grabing some chainmail+1..

oh and i wouldnt even want to party nin as a dd, they suck at dealing the damage, b/u tank is the lowest i'd go or i'd just feel useless to the party.

who in their right minds would wanna be behind the *gasp* dragoons in damage delt.

[Navia]

Avoid garlaige at all costs (jetstream/evasion down - no thanks)

Altepa dhalmels and beetles a much easier to handle, pair up with a war/thf using 2h axe that can SA+Sturmwind or provoke to give you some breathing room when you need to get your shadows back. Letting the monster hit the warrior a round or two is preferable to you sucking up all the mages mp while trying to get ichi back on and failing miserably :p Too much hate can kill you for this reason.
Crawlers nest isn't too bad 33+ they rarely double attack and in the later levels nest beetles aren't too bad either.
30-37 is one of the roughest time for ninja until you get suckered into tanking exorays around 50 for people that need Genkai 1 done

[Ozymandis]

I was suprised at exorays, they never really did much to me. I've seen them massacre others, however. Mostly I exp'ed off of beetles/Mussushu at that range. Scorpions are really good for us.

Triple bats in Garliage basement are a trial by fire. Every ninja should go there. The fact that Jet Stream is a 3-hit attack makes it really exciting. 95% of the time it'll either hit you once or twice, or leave you naked. 5% of the time, it'll hit you three times, and that'll be it for you

[Zempten]

Well last night I PTed with another NIN. Strange thing is he didn't have a macro to provoke off of. Instead I was taught to count her shadows. So well......now that I've learned a little more about NIN. I was wondering, how do all of use the new filters? Currently I filter everything except Attacks Evaded.

Oh and I got a really big wake up call.
Utsu - 6k
Blind - 8k
Slow - 8k

Wow, 22k a level ^^ I think I'm going to have to farm a whole whole lot

[EDIT} Oh and BTW, what do you guys think about Sea Serpent Grotto ^^ I remeber leveling my BLM there

[Kiyosuki]

I much prefer fighting mobs that are easy as hell to blink tank but once in a while (more often than not infact) a party will have me tank something difficult (a double attacking enemy, something that evasion-'s etc).

Although its good to fight what you can fight better, I think its important for every Ninja to try to tank "Ninja non friendly" mobs once in a while so you can learn not to just rely on redundance and systematic recasting of Utsusemi only. Its good practice.

If there's any unique advice I could give, its as Nin/War past 50, don't underestimate the usefulness of Defender. A Ninja should NOT be using it 24/7 as you're niche is a damage dealing tank,which is also an important aspect to how Ninja's keep hate a bit.

However, making it and Berserk a macro and memorizing where they are on the keyboard, and keeping a cool head can allow your Ninja a lot of flexibility. I've been able to outmaneuver almost everything I've tanked well but once in a while as said, you'll fight something that gives you an evasion down debuff, or takes a great deal of your shadows with an attack, or double attacks or attacks fast or a mix of any of those, and sometimes in some rare instances you'll find yourself just a few seconds away from Utsusemi Ni's cooldown timer being finished (thankfully its usually not the other way around, although it hasn't been for me anyways..)

If you ever find yourself in these times, if you have Berserk up don't be a fool, cancel it asap! Then hit the defender macro till Ni is safely up, then cancel it so your damage isn't gimp. On the flip side, know also when its time to use Berserk, and when its not. For mobs that you can dodge like crazy and own, like many beastmen types of Scorps you can usually leave it up and kick ass. But if you ever feel that the monster is going pretty hardcore on you don't flaunt Berserk around like crazy, stay in the middle where you can gear yourself to either offense or defense.

If there's ever a time of vulnerability, the damage difference that Berserk and Defender can make makes a huge difference. If touched by a um..Beetle in Crawler's from 50-54 for example, if I have berserk up it'll do up to 140 damage! If I'm normal, it'll range from 105-120. If Defender is up, it'll fall to as low as 75-80! Thats a huge difference (And trust me, as a Taru you need to save as much hp as you can, the same goes for every race really though not as much as me. )

Yes I know, its downright ridiculous to be talking about actually getting hit as a Ninja. But while the object is to not get hit at all, you can't guarantee 100% ever that you won't find yourself in a moment of vulnerability due to certain factors. Having extra versatility like this separates you from being someone who follows a pattern with no flexibility at all, or someone who doesn't rely on blink but uses it, and is prepared for anything that happens.

It'll make you less afraid to blink tank "non blink friendly" mobs if you ever have to, and any kind of versatile gameplay always helps Ninja out.

Don't underestimate the usefulness of ALL your tools and abilities, every single one has a use as a Ninja.

Although this is mostly 50+ stuff since I'm mentioning defender..since you seem to be talking about pre 37 stuff, evasion, enfeebles etc are all good, but nothing beats choosing your melee partner's in the front line wisely. If you don't party with a Warrior, try to party with a melee who can take a few hits like a Monk, or a Samurai, or even a Paladin if you ever party with them. Make sure to make a macro even if you have to to let them know that you're vulnerable so they can take it. Ninja is not a good class to be "the quiet guy" with the other melee's, especially before 37.

And I mentioned it atop already but this applies to 30-37 so I can't stress it enough, if you are ever vulnerable and you have berserk up, cancel it immediatly. That extra defense minus from Berserk can make a huge difference..

[Ozymandis]

Defender can have situational use. However, I very very rarely find myself using it. When I do get killed, it's from a combination of a Double Attack and TP move like Triple Attack, Sickle Slash, Screwdriver, etc. But if your timers run out and you can see it coming, Defender in combination with an emergency macro to raise your defense and/or max your evasion can save you.

On the other hand, I always use Berserk when it's up regardless of mob type

If you don't party with a Warrior, try to party with a melee who can take a few hits like a Monk, or a Samurai, or even a Paladin if you ever party with them.

To add on to that with something I've learned- it's beneficial even to my current level to party with DDs who won't fold with a few seconds of aggro. WAR/NIN is the best, but MNK/WAR and SAM/WAR are ok too. I prefer WAR/NIN because with the AF they're pulling a lot of hate and taking zero damage for up to 6 hits. It can be a bother more so than any other job including RNG and BLM. However, it's beneficial to your tanking if they pull hate at a time that's not critical (like with SATAWS) because the hits their Utsusemi absorbs will help you with your timers.

Not something for a new ninja to think about, as you should ideally take every hit aside from when the mob is turned for SATAWS. But you might find that useful so take from it what you will.

[Arien20]

Ugh, bottom line, nin is rough from 10-37, no fun. With the added utsusemi: NI your life is a million times easier.

[ClydeArrowny]

Hmm, I never really had problems tanking with only utsu ichi 25-37. Even mandra's weren't that bad, though I only did those for like 1 lv. Personally I found stacking evade and AGI till 37 was very useful. Usually 3 shadows would last at least 30 seconds, sometimes longer, making no recast problems.

As far as hate goes, every hit you connect gives you hate. More dmg per hit is more hate, but as long as you connect, even for 0 dmg, you get some hate. Every time you're hit you lose hate. Provoke gives a mass boost of hate once per 30 seconds. Due to this, try to boost acc enough to hit a reasonable rate to help hate, and at the same time boost evade and AGI enough to not get hit between recasts. Personally I struggled a bit until lv25 with the HQ2 mnk/sam/nin gear.

As far as food goes, if you can afford it, id reccomend using Jack-O-Lanterns; Acc+10 evade+10 CHR-10. From my experience CHR doesnt effect provoke per say, but rather the amount of hate you lose from actions that cause you to lose hate(i.e. getting hit by a mob.) More CHR allows you to retain hate while youre being hit while emnity+ allows you to gain more hate from any hateful action such as attacking and casting a spell. (example of CHR not directly affecting provoke is, mithra sam always took more hate than elvaan pld with voke, no matter what order they voked in, as long as the monster didn't attack either of them before both voked. pld has more chr, neither had emnity+ or -) Seeing as nin blink away most attacks, the CHR- on jacks shouldn't hurt too much, while acc+10 and evade+10 is a /ton/

Oh and these were my equips.
weapons: Always went for higher DMG weapons, and always got HQ if possible. 25-29 katanas. At lv 30 dual swords(i think centurion...the acc and attack+ ones) and I used those to 37.
ranged: Used chakrum for pulling. Tried shurikens once around 32 but I didnt find the hit rate to be that great.
head: VE pin(lv24)
neck: spike neck(lv21)
ears: evade+2 attack- ones, then dodge(if you go past 37, you may want to try drones)
body: bone/beetle+1, then lv25 HQ2 mnk/sam/nin
arms: bone/beetle+1, then lv25 HQ2 mnk/sam/nin(i found the acc to be better than 1 evade)
rings: AGI+2(lv14) then AGI+3(lv36)
back: travlers then nomad(lv24)
waist: VIT+3 belt, lv15 i think
legs: bone/beetle+1, then lv25 HQ2 mnk/sam/nin
feet: LL(lv7)

[Kiyosuki]

Defender is a situational tool for Ninja's, but I hear alot about how sometimes when Ninja's are vulnerable, they get themselves torn apart. But this is while they have berserk up for extra pain, not even bothering to take it off.

More or less what I mean is that I personally think the best way to play Ninja is to not get too comfortable in what I call "the routine", cast Ninjutsu in the same order...recast in the same order, never deviating from this. Yeah it can be pretty difficult when you're in long parties, but then you kinda adapt your pattern to whatever monster you fight. Sometimes its better to cast Kurayami first, sometimes its better to cast Hojo first, and sometimes its better to cast Jubaku before the mob comes..

Sometimes I think its even good to throw an elemental enfeeble first, then provoke, then enfeeble after a melee round, if your in a party where its a bit tougher to hold hate. Since Elemental enfeebles essentially, give more immediate emnity (the enfeelbes are more emnity grown over time) it gives you a good head start on hate before you enfeeble. It all depends on how you judge the party and mobs your fighting right then and there, I think this is a great mentality to have when playing Ninja in particular. Some jobs I think can safely fall into mundane routines, and some jobs I think shouldn't because its a more spontaneous and flexible job, I think Ninja's one of those.

Oh, and other advice I could for low levels. Something I wish I could of known when leveling low level.

Eat Jack-o-Lanterns. XD Meat Mithrakabobs (Or even Chiefkabobs) are good, sometimes its probably even preferable if you want to deal more damage. But in most cases, I can't stress enough how good Jack-O-Lanterns work for Ninja's. You won't find it on Allahazam or something, but its basically all but known that they give you +10 evasion, +10 accuracy as a hidden effect. Its 2000-2500 gil and you can only carry one at a time, but they last for a whopping 3 hours! (Bring one mithrakabob if you're budgeting, just incase you die and you need food. Or another Jack-O-Lantern if you can anyways)

The evasion these things give you is very aparent, and I imagine at lower levels it'll be ESPECIALLY aparent. +10 is huge! And although some may feel uncomfortable with giving up the damage increase from mithrakabobs trust me, the additional accuracy bonus (once again, ten is huge!) will very much make up for it much of the time. If a Ninja is able to hit almsot every single time, all those hits will make a difference, especially with berserk thrown in, and double attack later as well as faster dual wield.

I knew about these for the longest time, but never tried it until recently when every high level Ninja on my LS told me how good they are, and I decided to try it for one party and my god, I am never leaving home without at least one of these again. Its completely up to you, but for a Ninja, +10 Evasion and +10 accuracy gives you a hell of a lot of boost power in your niche. Not only that, but they're economical too, 2200 gil for a food that lasts 3 hours if you don't die is a very nice and cost efficient food.

Jack-O-Lanterns XD They're under food > meals > vegetables in the AH incase you ever want to try it, I highly recommend it.

In the mid 50's I've geared myself for a balance of evasion 50%, and accuracy/dexterity/attack 50% (With additional Evasion gears incase I just need them, but I never do in exp pt's usually.)
My evasion is +26 during the day with Kingdom pants, +31 at night with the AF pants. Now with Jack-O-Lanterns, my Evasion bonus is +36 at day, +41 at night plus dex+11, and Atk+20+berserk when its on means good atk power plus a lot of critical hits, with accuracy+15, with the Jack's now Acc+25. It adds up tremendously. Its probably I have to say the most exceedingly well balanced food a Ninja can eat.

[Zempten]

Thanks for all the great advice.

Last night I finally got a chance to goto Yutanga Jungle with my NIN at 24...man I felt so useless ; ; My shadows are gone in under 10 seconds and I take damage for 20 to 30. I'm 25 now and I'm going to go it another shot and this time I plan on eatting Jack-O-Lanterns for the +10 to evasion so my evasion will be around +33 ( +10 Hairpin , + 4 Earrings, + 6 Body and Legs, + 3 Nomad Mantle, and +10 from the food). I hope I won't be too much of a punching bag.

I also have another question. I've heard about this elemental wheel thing, where you cast one elemental magic and it deals damage AND also lowers the resistant of another elemental. Does anyone know which one does what? I was wondering if I could possible use some of the elemental magic plus some enfeebling ones so I don't have that many resists. I know my Ninjitsu is not up to par and could be a reason but I've been doing my best to raise it with Utsusemi and Blind. I don't use Slow yet because the WHM/RDM has it and also because the tools is at 19k right now and I don't want to have my slow resisted at such an underleveled Ninjitsu. Thanks again for all the hlep.

[EDIT] One more thing. I was thinking about crafting the ninja tools.....hm I sound funny for some reason ^^ Anyways I tried to search for fourms and MysteryTour for the reciepies and the type of craft needed and at what skill rate would give the highest % of success, but I don't understand it. Some of the reciepies said you can do it with Wood or Smithing or Clothing and Smithing.......so could someone please list the recipies for the tools for me please?

I'm only interested in Shihei, Kaginawa, Sairu-Ran, and the one for Paralyze please. Thanks a ton and sorry for the trouble again