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  • Attack Build Ninjas

    First up, why make an attack based ninja?!!! everyone knows ninjas need evasion!! ( Sorry I can't do a good idiot impression, I didn't get a lot of sleep ).

    Simple, Once you have hojo and kurayami ni the amount of evasion needed to cycle utsusemi is greatly reduced.

    An attack based ninja will have more hate than an evasion+emnity, and speed up the parties exp considerably because the extra damage an attack build does is large.


    So what numbers do I have to back this up?

    Someone irritated me on another forum so I decided to look at the numbers.

    Heres my "evasion" setup.

    2x Kororito+1
    bailathorn ( replaced with unguar boomerang/fenrir stone later )
    emporer hairpin
    evasion torque
    2x dodge earrings.
    ninja chainmail ( or scorp harness )
    AF gloves ( or arhats tekko )
    Jadeite Rings or Tiger rings, both seem popular. ( or snipers )
    Bat cape
    Survival Belt ( or lifebelt )
    Arhats hakama+1 ( or AF legs )
    fuma kyahan ( or arhats sune-ate )

    Heres my attack build ( this is what I currently exp with )

    2x Kororito+1
    bomb core
    emporer hairpin
    evasion torque
    2xdodge earrings
    Brynie
    Ochiudos Kote
    2x Sniper rings
    Amemet Mantle+1
    Lifebelt
    Arhats Hakama+1
    Fuma Kyahan.


    Now here are the numbers.

    Using an evasion/emnity build ( ok you'd have to put eris earrings in and maybe a mermaid ring but it doesnt affect the numbers ).

    Attack: 272.


    Using my attack build.

    Attack : 342


    Using Evasion build and meat chiefkabob.

    Attack: 335

    huh? thats right, my setup gives me +5 str and more attack than a meat chiefkabob.

    the numbers on attack build+meat chiefkabob are

    Attack: 420


    Please also note, my attack build gives +5 str, eva build gives none, so not only does it provide more attack than a meat chiefkabob, it provides equal str+.

    Ninja is a job where someone wearing full AF and mediocre equipment can still blinktank as well as someone in a scorpion harness and a full evasion setup, it really is a job where skill makes a large difference, I've sacrified a lot of evasion and put it into attack and accuracy with a little str boost. Maybe some people will get hit more but a skilled player will be able to blinktank fine.



    Net cost of my build:


    2x kororito @60k each, 120k
    bombcore @300k
    emporer hairpin @420k
    evasion torque @200k
    2x dodge earrings @40, 80k
    byrnie @1.4mill
    ochiudos kote @800k
    2xsnipers rings @650k, 1.3mill
    amemet mantle+1 @900k
    lifebelt @75k
    arhats hakama+1 @220k
    fuma kyahan @200k

    Also I have a bat cape @650k
    and some other alternate eq.


    My total equipment cost comes to around 7mill, so its not a cheap option, and not something I feel you can go 50/50 on.
    Depending on your server it may be cheaper/more expensive than a full evasion build ( really depending on harness price is a big factor ).


    I hope I've provided some useful information and some of you find it helpful in getting away from the "omg evasionz lolz" builds.
    55% Skill
    35% Equipment
    10% Race

    White Mage - 75 - Completed
    Ninja - 75 - Completed
    Summoner - 75 - Completed
    My Livejournal

  • #2
    I have to second tha Attack Ninja Style.
    On Manticoes in Teriggan, the nin was easily outdmging the war and I (granted he had the best gear he could have, aside from +1 harness/snipers/amemet)

    Then PTed with other Ninjas solely focused on eva: Not a ton difference in dmg reduced to them and much less dmg output (and less Tp for me :D)

    Just a question though, Ochi outweigh Pallas Bracelets for dmg? On Crabs I'd think Pallas(9 str) would be the way to go, but what about on other mobs?
    •70 Samurai•
    •Mithra•
    retired

    too many assholes choosing money over friends

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by bbcradical_ed

      Just a question though, Ochi outweigh Pallas Bracelets for dmg? On Crabs I'd think Pallas(9 str) would be the way to go, but what about on other mobs?
      The way I see it is, that once you get your ATK to the levels of devoted DD's, STR is the way to go, since once you get like 20-25% above the DEF of the enemy, ATK gives diminishing returns, and STR is required to boost damage.

      That and yeah, hard for me to run tests atm, but I think STR does help a lot to punch through the higher-def monsters since Katanas are so low D.

      Comment


      • #4
        attack based ninjas are good under certain circumstatances (i.e. against regular IT mobs), but when you are fighting mobs a few levels higher than IT, having evasion gear helps alot. myself i have two sets of gears depending on the mob i fight, and i tend to use my evasion gear the most because i usually don't have a dedicated healer (brd+rdm) instead of a whm and not getting hit helps alot.
        Dtec
        75Ninja
        37Warrior

        Comment


        • #5
          Today I was in Altepa, LS group being PLed, we did level 32-36 in about 5 hours.

          Two NINs, me and another, I had much better gear, and he did NIN/RNG for the acc boost, I was NIN/WAR.

          Had 6 more STR then him, and about 30 more attack (during Berserk), using same weapons (2x Kodachi).

          Fighting Beetles and Dhalmels, both were using Blade:To weapon skill, AVG Katana swing damage was 19 and 23 (roughly), and avg WS damage was 80 and 110.

          So it seems that STR is near a direct 1 damage raise correlation, and ATK seemd to have significantly effected the WS damage.

          Comment


          • #6
            Im building myself to more attack lately, been wondering if I should replace my Mermaid with a Sniper Ring or go for Ochuido Kotes first, I plan to get both, just wondering which would help more.
            Ill be going for almost same set up as you, but Ill be keeping my Nomad Mantle +1 instead of going for the Amemit Mantle +1, I like the Eva/Agi and I think it well help out more since I well have lower Eva/Agi.
            -Ragnarok-
            Nobutada, San d'Oria Rank 9
            Ninja - 75
            Paladin - 44
            Warrior - 39
            Thief - 37
            Samurai - 32
            Ranger - 25
            Monk - 24
            Beast Master - 20
            Black Mage - 20
            Whm - 14

            Comment


            • #7
              On the subject of Mantys... I love those things ; ; breath attacks out the ass but their standard melee can't hit the side of a barn much less a Ninja. Kinda rough kills for the levels but at 66-67 we got 300 on a chain 4. nin/drk/rng/whm/blm/brd. When our thf d/c and before the drk came we were killing them as 5 tho D:

              On the subject of rdm + brd... that's just so sad ; ; I like my rdm where they should be... refreshing paladins. ^_~

              As I wait to be flamed... it really depends on the mob tho. I loved Crawler Hunters (are these still XP worthy since AoE nerf?) in CN for the same reason I like Manticores now... slow with horrendous accuracy even with only minimal evasion. On the other side of the coin there's Peryton and Cockatrice... fast, hard hitters with solid accuracy. But they're going to hurt no matter what kind of setup you have.

              I've always liked being well balanced between evasion/str/attack/dex/agi/accuracy. atm I have...

              Byrnie
              Mermaid/Tiger
              Sniper
              Life Belt
              Lightning Bow +1 or Manjis or Chakram (debating Bomb Core)
              Korikoto +1 x2
              Nomad +1
              AF pants, feet
              2x Dodge Earrings or 2x Eris Earrings.
              Arhat's Tekko (or AF now and then)

              I tried more of Arhat's but +3 evasion vs. +4 agi for the Sune-Ate just didn't seem worth it. Plus they look like crap. The Hakama are nice for the daytime but... again purple isn't my thing... and I want to hold out for Nozikaru Hakama.

              Comment


              • #8
                Experience PT at Shrine of Ru'Avitau Golems (Uli area), no compeition from other PTs.

                Start: 12:00:00 AM
                Total Exp: 21473
                Per Hour: 0
                Per Minute: 0

                Experience Chains
                EXP Chain #0: 3293 - 24 times, 137.21 average.
                EXP Chain #1: 3708 - 23 times, 161.22 average.
                EXP Chain #2: 3704 - 22 times, 168.36 average.
                EXP Chain #3: 3906 - 22 times, 177.55 average.
                EXP Chain #4: 3733 - 20 times, 186.65 average.
                EXP Chain #5: 2520 - 13 times, 193.85 average.
                EXP Chain #6: 609 - 3 times, 203 average.

                Fayte (75 Mithra RNG)
                Total Fights: 125
                Average Damage: 1479.22
                Average Percent: 26.9
                Average Accuracy: 77.16
                Estimated DPS:

                Heero (75 Elvaan WAR/NIN)
                Total Fights: 128
                Average Damage: 1532.01
                Average Percent: 28.15
                Average Accuracy: 81
                Estimated DPS:

                Demetrios (75 Galka NIN/WAR)
                Total Fights: 128
                Average Damage: 1100.05
                Average Percent: 20.39
                Average Accuracy: 77.47
                Estimated DPS:

                Namocsid (75 Hume BLM/WHM)
                Total Fights: 116
                Average Damage: 1198.86
                Average Percent: 21.69
                Average Accuracy: 0
                Estimated DPS:

                Eggochiggo (75 Taru BRD/WHM)
                Total Fights: 3
                Average Damage: 7.33
                Average Percent: 0.14
                Average Accuracy: 0
                Estimated DPS:


                Taleeka (75 Taru RDM/BLM)
                Total Fights: 97
                Average Damage: 289.05
                Average Percent: 5.12
                Average Accuracy: 0
                Estimated DPS:

                All players were pretty decked EQ wise. RNG has Osode, Crimson Gloves etc. WAR has Adaman Hauberk + Ridill, BLM has HQ Thunder Staff & the caveman JSE.

                My NIN EQ:
                Stun Katanas +1
                Evasion Torque
                Scorpion Harness
                Sniper Rings x2
                Life Belt
                Dual Wield earring
                Fenrir earring
                Ungur Boomerang
                Lv72 JSE Feet and Hands
                Byakko's Haidate

                I like accuracy more than attack, since I usually PT with bards which brings my attack up to 650~ish. I have no enmity gear for EXP pts since most hate is kept from simply dealing damage and voking every 30 seconds. I usually only lose hate is to the BLM if I'm doing a low dmg weapon skill with the RNG (Blade: To > Slug Shot : Fragmentation) and Thunder 4 / Thungada 3 are unresisted. If I were able to solo Blade: Jin (which are usually 400~500 with a bard) I doubt I'd lose hate at all.
                Dead: Nidhogg, Aspi, King Behemoth, Fafnir, Suzaku, Genbu, Byakko, Seriyu, Kirin, Jormungand, Tiamat, and Vrtra

                Next up: Ouryu, Dynamis Lord?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Demetrios
                  I like accuracy more than attack, since I usually PT with bards which brings my attack up to 650~ish. I have no enmity gear for EXP pts since most hate is kept from simply dealing damage and voking every 30 seconds. I usually only lose hate is to the BLM if I'm doing a low dmg weapon skill with the RNG (Blade: To > Slug Shot : Fragmentation) and Thunder 4 / Thungada 3 are unresisted. If I were able to solo Blade: Jin (which are usually 400~500 with a bard) I doubt I'd lose hate at all.
                  I'm interested, do you use the Ninjutsu Debuffs and Elemental Ni's at all or no?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I sometimes use Kurayami to pull, however it rarely sticks :/. I almost never never use Elemental Ni's.
                    Dead: Nidhogg, Aspi, King Behemoth, Fafnir, Suzaku, Genbu, Byakko, Seriyu, Kirin, Jormungand, Tiamat, and Vrtra

                    Next up: Ouryu, Dynamis Lord?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Very impressive. Not only that you kept hate from all those jobs, but also that you tanked golems which I thought were near untankable after the patch.

                      I'm assuming you use optical hat, but which backpiece do you use?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by kisada
                        but also that you tanked golems which I thought were near untankable after the patch.
                        Actually NIN/WAR or WAR/NIN is still a lot better then PLD at tanking them. It's not like they spam AOE moves, and they'll hit a PLD for big damage.
                        JohNNY

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Would going +Str on Nin have any advantage on overall damage?

                          I know that +Attack does win in exp battles; however, on things like HNM I figured +Str would be better. At least try and increase the seemingly low base damage of the 1h katana's which combined with the dual weild + haste factors that come with Nin could be good.

                          Nin's use evasion when tanking, while they are not tanking the amount of evasion most wear isn't needed. Attack Nin IMO would be a decent DD with the right gear.
                          Full Cursed= O
                          Full Str Gear= O
                          Apocalypse= ; ;

                          DRK - /war /thf /nin /sam /whm
                          1-year break.. everything so cheap O_O

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Doh, yeah I used an Optical Hat and an Amemet Mantle +1.

                            Golems are a lot harder to EXP on before, however they were ridiciously easy to tank before the patch. Now you just treat them like Serket or any other Ga-friendly NM and recast Ichi as you see the WS go off. The only time you need stun now is after Thunder Break WS since you are stunned and need maybe 2-3 seconds so you can get Ni or Ichi off before the Golem hits you for 300~500 dmg >_<;.
                            Dead: Nidhogg, Aspi, King Behemoth, Fafnir, Suzaku, Genbu, Byakko, Seriyu, Kirin, Jormungand, Tiamat, and Vrtra

                            Next up: Ouryu, Dynamis Lord?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              STR vs Accuracy

                              My TW Ninja friend believes in attack / accuracy as well, but he wears STR+4 rings instead of two snipers. In my opinion in order to take full advantage of our high attack speed all attacks should connect.
                              Dead: Nidhogg, Aspi, King Behemoth, Fafnir, Suzaku, Genbu, Byakko, Seriyu, Kirin, Jormungand, Tiamat, and Vrtra

                              Next up: Ouryu, Dynamis Lord?

                              Comment

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