NIN/BLM (A must read)

[Bigbird]

good idea eriko, i totally forgot we have Pvp in this game lol..

[Kiyosuki]

Yeah it can be tough to remember there is a way to kill another player in this game..somewhere..

[Patchinko]

Originally posted by Bigbird
Ninjutsu skill:
I believe that this is the most important factor in terms of a mob resisting our debuffs. This is a logical conclusion that is reinforced by the fact that ninjutsu skill doesnt increase the dmg that elemental Ninjutsu does. Therefore i believe it must effect resistance, otherwise why the hell do we have it!!! (rumor to also efffect spell interuption rate)

Since this is exactly how spells work for the rest of the mages, I completely agree that this is most likely what Ninjutsu skill does.

1) Lowers mob resistance to the ninjutsu.
2) Lowers chance of interruption.
3) Does not effect damage directly.

A mob resistance on an Elemental spell results in a percentage drop in the damage. For example, if I go out and cast the same spell on a monster 10 times and it hits for 100dmg (maximum damage for this spell) seven times, 50dmg two times and 25dmg one time, it's because I got resisted three times, twice for 50% and once for 75%. These are the two types of resists other than a complete resist. So I wonder if Ninjutsu can be resisted in a similar manner.

I also wonder if the elemental weakening associated with jutsus can be equated to a certain percent.

Originally posted by riceburner4540
int will increase ninjutsu damage linearly (roughly 1:1), but will not help resist rates. i would imagine that this wouldn't be much of a problem anyway, except for the first ninjutsu used. there have been plenty of tests on the blm forums for this and its generally agreed upon that int plays a very, very small role (if any) as far as resist rates go.

although i've yet to see proof of this, it seems (and is generally agreed) that burn decreases resist rates as well as increases magic damage for black magic. mid to high 60s, resist rates on exp mobs drop way, way down for blms, so if burn lowers resist rates, it's difficult to notice; however, pre-elemental staves, it seemed like spells landed much easier with burn on.

As to whether INT effects Ninjutsu resistance, it does slightly effect resistance of black magic spells, and since jutsu seem to fall under this type of spell, I would predict that it does a bit. For INT vs. Elemental skill, it's something like 3 INT = 1 Elemental skill, so maybe it's the same.

As for Burn, it directly lowers mob INT, and in the equation for calculating black magic spell damage, it takes into account the difference between the caster's INT and the mob's INT. So it should increase the damage of your spells.

If any of you ninjas would like to find out these things, you could go do the experiment yourself.

In order to rid yourself of any problems involving the INT difference, IE to get real values for your spells, you can go into a low level area such as Ronfaure, Sarutabaruta or Gustaberg. Casting Burn on a very low level bee or rabbit will reduce its INT to 1. Then try the jutsu naked, with ninjutsu+ gear on, with INT+ gear on, with a Moldavite on, and with the corresponding elemental staff on. Try using the spell that corresponds to the day, a neutral spell, and the spell that is weak to the day. Since all of the elemental ninjutsu are learned at the same level, chances are they will all do the same level of damage against these mobs, the only differences being in correspondance to the day and to mob resistance (which should be miniscule).

That is, if anyone is willing to go out and do this... :sweat:

[riceburner4540]

For INT vs. Elemental skill, it's something like 3 INT = 1 Elemental skill

where did you get this from? there hasn't been any conclusive tests that i know of which shows that this is true. there are records of tests on the blm forums though, done with a parser showing that int has little to no effect on resists.

for example, it was something like this...
on VT and IT mobs
100 nukes, 79 unresisted

equip +int gear, boosting int by 30 while keeping elemental skill the same (or something)
on VT and IT mobs
100 nukes, 80 unresisted

those aren't exact numbers, but the conclusion was something similar. of course, there's also a degree of randomness, even with such large samples.

[Patchinko]

I wish I could give you an exact source, but I am dictating it from memory. If I could find you the exact update or source, I would give it to you. This update says that at least ancient magic resists have some reliance on INT. Regardless, these tests can be done by us if we truly desire the answer, as opposed to arguing about it.

It is kind of common knowledge among BLM and RDM that in early levels, INT does have a noticeable effect on elemental accuracy, but that it falls off in later levels. I would not consider INT a significant way to decrease resistance, especially later in level, but if one is unable to increase ninjutsu skill, for example, INT would be a possible alternative.

One must go out and test it on mobs with 1INT by using Burn on low level mobs. I am very busy over the next week, but if I find some free time, I'll give it a shot.

[Bigbird]

I dont think it is worth trying to prove or disprove int having to do with resistance. High Ninjutsu skill and Elemental staves are enough tools for a NIN/BLM to get resisted very little anyway.

Also, it is too difficult to test resistance, everyone is gona have different results and possibly come to different solutions, unlike when you test damage and you can make direct conclusions based on the numbers.

By this weekend i will be posting some Numbers about this combo's Damage against HNMs, and Gods and we'll see how much it does. I'M curious if i can expect 150+ damage on higher lvl HNMs. Even If i can pump out 100 damage each cast that would be insane since i usually am swaped in (and right back out) to use spirits within.:sweat: and then wait on the sideline till it is killed.

[nsxtasy]

If Ninjitusu is resisted even close to as much as black magic on Gods, expect alot of Ni spells for 10 damage...:mad:

[Patchinko]

Originally posted by Bigbird
I dont think it is worth trying to prove or disprove int having to do with resistance. High Ninjutsu skill and Elemental staves are enough tools for a NIN/BLM to get resisted very little anyway.

Also, it is too difficult to test resistance, everyone is gona have different results and possibly come to different solutions, unlike when you test damage and you can make direct conclusions based on the numbers.

By this weekend i will be posting some Numbers about this combo's Damage against HNMs, and Gods and we'll see how much it does. I'M curious if i can expect 150+ damage on higher lvl HNMs. Even If i can pump out 100 damage each cast that would be insane since i usually am swaped in (and right back out) to use spirits within.:sweat: and then wait on the sideline till it is killed.

Please use a parser when you do it, assuming that's realistic in your fights. It'd be interesting to see how your damage compares to other DDs.^^

And yeah, proving INT is related to elemental accuracy is kind of silly for end game, but it would show that early on for BLM or RDM, INT does have an effect. I will try it regardless.

Also, it's not at all difficult to test. Even Wild Rabbits will occassionally resist Stone I from a 61RDM with capped elemental skill, sadly... If anything, it's for interest's sake.

[jinshyro]

I've heard from a blm friend that it takes 1 sec for a staff to take effect after u swapped into it. Is this correct?

If so then swapping staves will add 1 whole sec to each time you want to cast a different Ni spell. Unless its possible to change staves while in mid cast of your last NI spell and still get the 10% of your previous staff.

but playin as a ranger with a crossbow i started with acid bolts and if i changed it to darksteel bolt before it fires it would give me the msg "you do not have the appropriate equipment equiped" and would not shoot. However if i quickly changed back to acid bolt it will fire the acid bolt. so im guessing it does 2 checks on your equip, once when you hit your macro and once again when actually fire. would this apply to casting magic as well tho?

[bleegh]

On the bard boards, it's general consensus that the staff just needs to be equipped when the song finishes casting for the effect to take place. I'd assume it's the same with other spells.

[Coinspinner]

As long you have the item equipped when the spell finishes casting you get the effect.

[Coinspinner]

Anybody here field test this yet? :D

[Thegod]

by field do you mean in an xp party?

remember coin i said its perfect for BCNM 30, but i see no other uses for it.

[Kiyosuki]

I had to post this.

http://dl.downloadhosting.com/downlo...r/Composite%20(Dec%207)%20004.wmv

Keep in mind, he's doing this pre elemental staves, and pre 60nin/30blm magic attack bonus.

Video isn't very good quality, but you'll get the point.

Edit: For some reason the silly message board url's only part of this address, but not the rest. Just copy and paste the address into a download.

Found on thread:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.h...8738436&num=97

Note: Author stresses it is not an attempt to outdo Nin/War, /War's still king but just so we avoid any unnecessary flames, but I don't see too much of that stuff on this Ninja board thankfully.

Someone wanted a field test, here it is.

[nsxtasy]

I tried this out last night to see how it was.

Taru Lvl 51 Nin/Blm - All Ele Staves(no HQ), 2 Eremite's Rings, Moldavite Earring, rest of my reg. ninja gear, fuma kyahan was my only +haste. 54 or 58 int +4 (can't remember base int offhand).

I fought the Beetles in the Serket area of Garlaige Citadel. These are all VT++ to me still at 51 and very much xp mobs for most PTs.

I had Ni up and would para/blind the beetle, then start in on the elemental wheel. Unresisted each Ni hit for 140+. At least 1 Ni was resisted down to 17 damage or something each pass through the wheel. So about 15 seconds, and ~700 damage or so. Recast Ni when needed. Go back down the wheel. I had about 2 seconds of wait after the wheel and reapplying blink before I could start back down the Ni wheel.

This was very dependant on Para/Blind sticking and working well. Its not as easy to make teh ni->ichi transition w/ all the casting of ele Ni.

First beetle I fought, I killed nearly as fast as the xp PT's around me and I got 250xp from it.

I could see this being useful soloing on EM and T mobs, as Ninjitsu will stick so much easier. Its kinda sketchy doin it on VT-IT mobs.

As far as a party setting....I'm inclined to believe it wouldn't work for my PT since we currently only fight IT+++ mobs (chain #1s for 300 etc.). I doubt ninjitsu would stick well enough for me to keep aggro off the 2 rngs in my PT. But we might try it out for a few mobs and see just for testing purposes. After lvl 60, maybe it will be more viable w/ the 2nd mgc atk up from blm sub. And possibly once we get close to lvl 70 where it gets hard to find IT++ mobs suitable for ninja I'll be able to do VT-IT w/ this technique.

I'm going to get the parser from my friend and try and parse some results from my spt, which has a setup of:

nin, rng, rng, smn, brd, rdm.

So far, it does pretty darn good damage. Whether it can hold hate in a PT w/ rangers? Yet to be determined...