Patch Update Details!

[Gryff]

The effectiveness of the ninjutsu "Utsusemi" now relies on the type of attack that is being used on the caster. When attacked, the following five outcomes can occur:

Caster evades attack and one "copy image" is lost.
This normally occurs when the caster is hit with a single physical or magical attack.

The number of lost copy images varies.
This normally occurs when the caster is hit with an area attack such as Whirl of Rage. The number of copy images lost (and extra damage taken) is calculated by taking into account the potency of the attack as well as the caster's current ninjutsu skill level.

All copy images are lost and the caster takes damage.
This normally occurs when the caster is hit with an area attack spell such as Firega.

The caster takes damage without losing any of his/her copy images.
This normally occurs when the caster is hit with breath, or self-destruct type attacks.

The caster is enfeebled without losing any of his/her copy images.
This normally occurs when the caster is hit with an enfeebling spell that does not inflict damage, such as Silence.
All enemy attacks fall into one of the above categories.
The copy images created by the spells Blink and Aerial Armor can also be removed in the same manner as that explained under "the number of lost copy images varies" (above).

[neighbortaru]

doesn't seem so bad does it?

AOE spells wipe out all the shadows -- same as before no?

AOE attacks wipe out x number of shadows depending on ninjutsu skill and "potentency" (damage i presume) -- not a complete nerf, but still annoying.

Utsu doesn't stop breath or self-destruct -- depending on what qualifies as "breath" this could be annoying

Enfeebles don't take away shadows -- again not new right?

[Kirk]

Yes this does not seem so bad at all ^^

By the looks of it single attack weapon skills seem to fall under the single physical attack category. This is by far the worse of them.

The AOE attack also does not seem too bad. Hopefully its designed so that regular ninjas only still lose 1 or 2 due to their capped ninjutsu level but the sub ninjas will suffer loss of all usually.

This would be a fair trade off if it does work like this.

Again not so bad at all. In a way, maybe its making nin mains special again.

Still want San tho! ><

[Bamce Sylph]

all i have to say is all the fanboys who wanted ninjas to be nerfed so they could get away w/o blinktanking can start shedding the tears from here out.

from the sounds of the details ninja mains may loose an extra shadow or so 2, but not the debilitating loss of all that many people were predicting.

[Niland]

not much to say except seems like S-E really thought this one through well.

so subjob ninja isnt quite so godly.... but ninja mainjob should be fine^^

[Spider-Dan]

/cheer for Squenix

I'm wondering how much this will affect me as a /NIN, but I'll deal with it. I don't have a problem with NIN sub getting nerfed (even this seems like it might be minor), but I don't want the game to have only one viable tank.

The last month of arguing could have been easily avoided if Squenix was anywhere near accurate with their pre-patch wording. "The effect will be completely removed" is a far cry from "you lose varying shadows based on ninjutsu skill". Maybe they changed their minds? Who knows.

I guess Squenix really just hated DRG.

[Biterman]

Umm...I wonder if all gob bombs will be considered self destruct or only the ones that actually kill the gob too.

The enfeebling issue is somehow an odd change. As of now, do the Toramas specials go thru blink or are absorbed?
I suppose I will get to lvl NIN after all. ^^

[Ozymandis]

/relief

That's cool. I'm going back to Ninja tonight so it's nice to see that the nerf turned out to be pretty much a non-issue.

Ninja probably could have used a bit of balance, but unlike others I've never seen the job as being the "ultimate" tank. PLDs are more versatile in terms of which exp mobs they can tank, and there's the hate issue... as long as Square leaves these two things alone I can live with the situation.

[Korutonu]

I think jobs subbing NIN like RNG and THF should still be ok with low ninjutsu skill since the mob shouldnt be attacking those two all the time. WAR/NIN is effected alot more than RNG or THF definatly though heh. It's about time to see Utsusemi being effected by Ninjutsu magic skill. This update basicly makes capping Ninjutsu even more important to prevent AOE from taking 2-3 shadows or whatever. But it's great to see that NIN blink tanking is here to stay full time now.

[Aetheran]

The game now tells you how many shadows you lose
i.e.
1 of Aetheran's shadows absorbs the damage and disappears.

If we take an aoe, it would check against our ninjutsu skill and how much damage it would do, then decide how many shadows we would lose.

i.e. after a Whirl of Rage;
2 of Aetheran's shadows absorbs the damage and disappears.

I'd say this update was a nerf to the ninja SJ being used in Dynamis/Ballista. Because with subbed NIN your skill is low and you won't make successful checks and will lose all your shadows. Notice with the addition of numbers seems like S-E is actually trying to improve our blink tanking by making it easier for us to keep count

[Navia]

Originally posted by Biterman
Umm...I wonder if all gob bombs will be considered self destruct or only the ones that actually kill the gob too.

The enfeebling issue is somehow an odd change. As of now, do the Toramas specials go thru blink or are absorbed?
I suppose I will get to lvl NIN after all. ^^

'gaze' type effects like chaotic eye, baleful gaze from coeurls,shadow dragon and lizards ignore utsusemi completely.
Turning your back until your weapons are about to swing, turn, attack and face away again is still the best defense against those attacks.

[strikerr]

/cheer

this "Nerf" as so many of you PLDs, BLMs, RNGs wanted to call it, doesn't seem to be all that bad, BLINK tanking is here to stay.

As for the last few weeks of FLAMING, you guys weren't saying that NINs would be killed as tanks after the update... you were saying that we were dead as tanks in the first place... you made yourself out to be asshats... don't try to sugar coat it now... specially since with a few of you doing the majority of the flaming, are the ones that are subbing NIN and are the ones truely getting nerfed, not us NINs....

{Thank you.} {Good Game} {Good Bye.}

/farewell

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by strikerr
As for the last few weeks of FLAMING, you guys weren't saying that NINs would be killed as tanks after the update...

WTF? Every single person that was talking about this change was discussing potential post-update effects (otherwise, it would just be another one of the 432832876 PLD > NIN threads that existed way before this patch, and will continue to exist).

Luckily for all of us, Squenix decided to implement a smart anti-/NIN solution, instead of DRGing NIN. I haven't seen anyone complain since this new news came out.

[Kiyosuki]

I think its extremely clever. It solves the problems of /Nin being a little too powerful a tool for certain things later on mostly (I guess 74-75 obviously.), and having Ninja's keep they're niche. But at the same time it doesn't cripple the soloing ability of /Nin later on, like Rdm/Nin, Drk/Nin, War/Nin etc, it just makes it so those respective jobs may have to also rely on they're main job's niche's as well as the time bought by Utsusemi. As far as for general party use, /Nin shouldn't be hurt too much. I mean, you won't be able to perfectly blink tank later on if you decide to take all the hate to yourself, but that's the Ninja tank's job really.

It basically widens the difference between Ninja's using Utsusemi, and other's using it the exact same way. I mean, it makes perfect sense that a master of the ninja arts would use evasive ninjutsu with greater skill than some Black Mage that just happened to have traveled a lot and picked up a few skills right? :D

Maybe...Utsusemi San will be a very specialized blink spell?

To solve the problem of Ninja's maybe having an overkill of blink shadows, maybe instead of just giving you more shadows it would give you a special shadow designed just to take a -ga spell, or an AOE in place of the regular blinks, or going through the regular blinks? I think maybe it'd be best for -ga's, like Ninja's using a special magical wooden block especially designed to take a -ga hit.

Like...the regular Utsusemi, Ichi and Ni, would be one icon up on top as usual, but casting San would create a completely separate icon on top next to it, that would stay untouched by the regular hits that blink takes away, until one type of attack that wouldn't be blocked by the regular shadows like a -ga spell comes, THEN that blink (it would be just one) would take the hit. Its like in reserve most of the time.

Like for example.
Before Utsusemi San (If this is true.)
.....Mob "Har har har!"
.......|_____________ -Ga spell, or something that ignores Utsu.
.......|
X X | X X "oh noes!" ________Shadow images
.......|
......\/
.....Ninja "Ouch! Damn you mob!"

After UTsusemi San, if its cast pre battle.

.....Mob "Oh noes!"
......|_____________ - Ga spell etc, Ignores Ichi and Ni.
......|
X X | X X"oh noes!"__________Ichi and Ni shadows
......|
.....\/
......S "No!"----------------------San spell in reserve stops -Ga spell.
....Ninja "You suck now mob"


If some attacks were kept the Ninja's achelles heel, like silence, and some AOE's still taking more than one shadow, it would keep it relatively balanced. And since you get San late anyways, I think it would be a perfectly balanced thing to get that late, and still have some room for error if not done right. Have San just take one particular type of attack that ignores Ichi and Ni, to lessen stress. I think you'd earn it by then.

It makes sense doesn't it? I'm sure SE wouldn't have the problem releasing the other San Ninjutsu if the thing with Utsusemi San were resolved. (Although they'd probably not release Dokumori San and Jubaku San, just like now with the ni versions. I understand why, too many enfeebles.. Maybe just Tonko, Utsusemi, and the elementals for the San's? Well...Hojo would be nice.)

For you really high level Ninja's, Other than Utsusemi San, do you guys think upgraded versions of Hojo, Kurayami, the Elemental wheel spells, and Tonko would be too much at those later levels? Do you feel like it'd be something welcome at those later levels, or too powerful?

I'm sure if the level cap is raised past 75, there will be considerably more demand for them either way..but what do you guys feel?

[little ninja]

would this same rule apply to the agado asassins ??