im tried of people saying SE doesn't like ninja tanks

[Biterman]

Originally posted by Stanislav
Unless your level 70+ dont even bother posting cause ur just basing off what one of your other noob friends says.

Wow...there goes all the respect I had for you. I seriously thought you were a down to earth player who was kind enough to make cool videos.

It seems that you suffer from the recent "I have killed an HNM therefore I own everyone who hasnt" NA syndrome. Some of you HNM hunters seem to forget that what applies to an HNM fight doesnt in your first 70 levels. You HAD to XP for at least 70 levels to get to that point.
Whats the difference between the NIN/DRG that levels to 20 and proclaims it as a viable combo and the lvl 70+ that feels elite because he has smacked the gods? None. They both forget that the game isnt the same at every single level.

At least there is hope in players like TheBruce. A guy that pretty much has every item a PLD can dream for and keeps his cool at all times. It may be just a stupid little coincidence, but for every cool NIN in this forum there are at least 5 NIN whose ego is unrivaled. Complete opposite at the PLD forums.

[Stanislav]

Originally posted by Biterman
Wow...there goes all the respect I had for you. I seriously thought you were a down to earth player who was kind enough to make cool videos.

It seems that you suffer from the recent "I have killed an HNM therefore I own everyone who hasnt" NA syndrome. Some of you HNM hunters seem to forget that what applies to an HNM fight doesnt in your first 70 levels. You HAD to XP for at least 70 levels to get to that point.
Whats the difference between the NIN/DRG that levels to 20 and proclaims it as a viable combo and the lvl 70+ that feels elite because he has smacked the gods? None. They both forget that the game isnt the same at every single level.

At least there is hope in players like TheBruce. A guy that pretty much has every item a PLD can dream for and keeps his cool at all times. It may be just a stupid little coincidence, but for every cool NIN in this forum there are at least 5 NIN whose ego is unrivaled. Complete opposite at the PLD forums.

I am no were near the level of "OMG I KILLED HNM YO" becase the strongest HNM I killed where I actually did something was Seiryu. Kirin I basically leeched of JP LS, was such a boring fight and I felt so useless there after the other 4 gods were wiped that I just was AFK rest of the fight.

I just hate when non-ninja people come here and act like they know everything, they base their ideas off seeing some noob use blink then just fight and loose hate etc..

If a job is played right then people have another aspect to think of.

I myself being a ninja can say 100% that this will not cripple ninja becuase 50% of the time my Utusuemi is ready to be cast due to my massive evasion gear (Around+80~_~) and once I get my Byyako's haidate and Speed Belt it will be even lower.. Basically trading +11% haste for +10 evasion at night and +5 regular evasion.

I tanked Bune as a THF which only has 3 shadows on Ni and never got hit once (Of course THF have more evasion but my evasion isnt leveled by my NIN so its uncapped).

As for ninja not being desired in PT now is total bullshit. When I started playing NIN I was a little cheap bitch till around 65+. I just casted Ni and just took hits if it hadnt recharged (Didnt use Ichi at all). In the end I did very nice dmg and still avoided taking several hits which in the end is far better the PLD. If i can do it that way and level well then if a ninja gets hit 1-2 more times per fight due to this nerf it will still make them a better leveling tank.

Just what I have to say.

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by Korutonu
As for Defender remember that the more damage you take, the more hate you lose. Therefore with more defence even that slightly less dmg taken can help when utsusemi is down.

Seriously, get off of the Defender kick. imac already pointed out that the hate generation from activating Defender is minute, and taking less damage does not help you generate hate, it helps you lose it less quickly (but you are still losing hate). For a NIN, the hate that you conserve by being hit for less will be trumped by the hate generation that you lose due to your gimped damage.

[Korutonu]

Please don't assume I think defender generates all that hate. You basicly repeated what I said by saying it helps reduce hate loss. I'm not going to bother with you anymore since you're just way too stubborn to accept all the facts I've said and even what Stan said. NIN will NOT be nerfed! :mad:

[Kiyosuki]

17 days

[Koroco]

Originally posted by Kiyosuki
17 days

Seriously :\

[Kiyosuki]

17 days.

17 days.....

16 days......

*cries*

[Theiry]

I've never partied with a ninja, I'm not high enough of a level to even see a blink tank, and I know almost nothing about how it all works. That being said, I do have some input on this whole thing. So forgive me if I'm way off on something, if this wouldn't work at all, or if this is common practice already.

I don't really see this update making it impossible for ninja's to tank. It will make it harder and much more strategical, but not impossible. I might just be ignorant, but I think it'll just be harder (and more fun) to blink tank. As far as I can tell, there's no reason why ninja's will have to take any damage at all after an AOE (other than the actual AOE doing damage). If they have enough haste, or they put in the san line, the only problem in getting their shadows back up is being hit. So wouldn't it be possible for someone to stun the monster after each AOE, so that the ninja can recast? Or sleep the monster for that matter.

So if blink tanking works like I think it does, this 'nerf' will just make it so the party (and especially the ninja) has to pay attention for AOE's more. As soon as the monster starts their AOE the Dark Knight, Black Mage, Bard, or Paladin (don't know why they would be in the party though..) will stun (or sleep) the monster so that the Ninja can recast without taking a hit. Or, though this is really dangerous (and stupid most likely), the White Mage (or paladin) could 'flash' the monster to let the Ninja recast.

Anyway, like I said, I've never partied with a Ninja, so I really can't speak from experience. So sorry if I'm way off on anything. But even if it wouldn't work to stun/sleep/whatever a monster, there will most likely be some way for Ninja's to still tank. Even if it does mean that they can't tank against certain monsters.

[Deodorant]

Originally posted by Theiry
I've never partied with a ninja, I'm not high enough of a level to even see a blink tank, and I know almost nothing about how it all works.

Therefore you should keep quiet and keep your opinion to yourself.

[Korutonu]

The moment of truth is close... Only then will we know the true effects of this fix and even see if DRG are finally saved. :sweat:
16 days is....

too far

[Theiry]

Originally posted by Deodorant
Therefore you should keep quiet and keep your opinion to yourself.

Alright, so I take it that, for some reason, Ninja's do have to take hits if their shadows are taken away? There's no possible way around this at all? And everything I posted was way off?

I admit I haven't played with a blink tank. However, I have played this game for quite some time, and read about it for much longer than that. I've been reading up on strategies in the game, posting on message boards, checking what skills each class gets and everything of that sort since months before the Japanese release. As far as I can tell, the things I posted would work, and if they don't, something else would. And even if none of it would work, and I'm WAY off on everything about it, post something saying that. Telling me I don't have the right to share an opinion because I'm not a high enough level doesn't help anyone.

Please, by all means, tell me that Utsusemi doesn't work that way, tell me that stun wouldn't stop the monster for long enough, tell me that the recast is too long, and that haste won't help enough. Pick anything at all that I was wrong in, even if I was wrong in everything, and politely correct me. Better yet, correct me and then post some way that you think a ninja could stay alive if their shadows were taken away. There's nothing I'd rather see than someone posting an interesting strategy, instead of just saying "Ninja's are horrible now!". I would love to see a "high level player" posting on how they plan to handle it when an AOE wipes out their shadows. And perhaps my post, even if it isn't from first hand experience, will give someone even a tiny idea to take and bend into something that will work. If that happens, and even if it doesn't, then my post wasn't a horrible waste of serve space.

If in fact I do know nothing about the subject, either post correcting me, so that I can learn about it, or just ignore me. If more people in game would send people tell's saying "I noticed you don't sub Whm on your Blm, if you're interested I can try to explain some of the benefits of that job combo. Or if you just haven't leveled up Whm yet, I'd be happy to help you" instead of "U suk, u dont play Blm/Whm", maybe more people would sub White Mage with their Black Mages.

So anyway, I apologize for taking up your time having to read my apparently idiotic post. And to everyone else, I'm sorry for this rather long, off topic rant. I don't like to post off topic, and I usually tag on something to do with the topic at the end of my posts, but seeing as I seemingly know absolutely nothing about Ninja's, I'd best not post anything more about it.

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by Theiry
Please, by all means, tell me that Utsusemi doesn't work that way, tell me that stun wouldn't stop the monster for long enough, tell me that the recast is too long, and that haste won't help enough. Pick anything at all that I was wrong in, even if I was wrong in everything, and politely correct me.

A NIN that can't keep shadows is a third-rate tank at best. It remains to be seen exactly how much this nerf will affect blink tanking. If the update wording is executed to the letter (meaning, any AOE attack strips all shadows) NIN will be a significantly inferior tank to both PLD and WAR overall.

[Theiry]

Alright, thank you. =) I guess, as Korutonu said, we'll just have to wait for the patch to come out and then figure out how to tank well as a ninja (if it's still possible at all). Either way, I'm sure ninja will still be a fun and usefull class. I doubt Square-Enix would make any class useless. Maybe they are hurting the tanking ability because they plan to give ninja's some cool new stuff in CoP, or they aren't hurting the tanking ability at all. Who knows.

[Korutonu]

We can only hope SE adds maybe a small enhancement for NIN. Maybe an enimity+ Job Trait? Just to slightly help and to let NIN cut back on the gil a bit.

[Madden]

Don't have to wait for update, just listen to Spider-Dan. He's the true expert of this game, if he say all mobs will spam AOE every 5sec and Ninja will never have shadows up thats must be true.