Is Blink the only Real option for a Ninja?

[Centurion]

There is much discussion that the Ninja's role in party situations should be exclusivley that of Blink Tank.

Is this really the only way a Ninja can be played in a party succesfully?

[Malleus]

I believe the upcoming 'nerf' is SEs attempt to let people know that they think Nin might be being played 'wrong' in their eyes.

Anyways, in our static, our nin was occasionally the main dd. She wasn't trying to be either. She was subbing thf. I think if they get jacked up on food and str/att ups, Nin can seriously hurt mobs. This doesn't disqualify tanking, but it is an alternative. Btw, the pt consisted of a Sam, 2 Blm, Pld, Whm, Rdm. The hi def mobs, where most of missed a lot, the Nin was having a field day. I believe if she subbed war, w/berserk, etc, she would do serious dmg.

I find most players are just closeminded about the possibility. Go figure.

Also, we have tried all the way up to this point, to have the nin share tanking w/our pld. About 1/3 way through the fight, the Nin can no longer pull it off our tank. We've given up on that idea, our pld holds hate straight through now. Just our experiences mind u, but I thought I would share them.

[Aetheran]

Originally posted by Malleus
I believe the upcoming 'nerf' is SEs attempt to let people know that they think Nin might be being played 'wrong' in their eyes.

Anyways, in our static, our nin was occasionally the main dd. She wasn't trying to be either. She was subbing thf. I think if they get jacked up on food and str/att ups, Nin can seriously hurt mobs. This doesn't disqualify tanking, but it is an alternative. Btw, the pt consisted of a Sam, 2 Blm, Pld, Whm, Rdm. The hi def mobs, where most of missed a lot, the Nin was having a field day. I believe if she subbed war, w/berserk, etc, she would do serious dmg.

I find most players are just closeminded about the possibility. Go figure.

Also, we have tried all the way up to this point, to have the nin share tanking w/our pld. About 1/3 way through the fight, the Nin can no longer pull it off our tank. We've given up on that idea, our pld holds hate straight through now. Just our experiences mind u, but I thought I would share them.

The thing is though, NIN can do the same damage while tanking. And I fail to see how subbing THF on NIN would ever be any good at all. SA on a katana is worthless, and you lose Double attack and Berserk..

[Malleus]

That might be true (dmg & semitank) but most nin sacrifice dmg for vit. So in terms of dmg, they screw themselves. Just the typical playstyle, not that it has to be done that way.

I'm just pointing out that a Nin can dd. It's just most people don't bother. And, in our case, w/a Pld, why bother blink tanking? She shoulda /war and gone to town.

And I agree about /thf. Stinks. Just what ours did, b/c she's going thf/nin...^^....we're too soft on her.....

I added this much later, as I noticed more votes, but no more comments. I believe, like so many things in this game, hype rules over reality and that most people think Nin aren't dds because they aren't.... :confused:

If you look at the very early NA posts on Nin, playstyles varied greatly, at least when it came to many high lvl Nin who had imported versions of the game.

[little ninja]

i sometimes often wonder what is the real role ment for the nin. some say its is that of an enfeebler. but then again you can just get a rdm/whm, an get an enfeebler/healer. so i dont feel this was its true role.


then i think maybe more of a damage dealer. but then again it gets no attack bonus, no accuracy bonus. the weapon skills are sub par. its like a thf but with deulweild an without the sa/ta.


then i think of a nin's A+ in throwing, an think that mabe it follows in the role of a rng. then i look at no throwing weapon skills, it is a gimped version of the rng.


after 55 you fight alot of crabs in boyada tree, an kuftal tunnel. so a rdm is a must. so a nin an his enfeeble powders are not needed. cant use it to support a pld. cause soon after the battle has begun, pld has major control of the hate.


the history of the nin was simple. to get in, do its damage an get out. with out a trace. killers for hire. i fail to see it in the aspect in game. also in early japan time, the nin an sam hated one another, but the nin would always have the upper hand on a sam. using ninjitsu, an trickery of the blade to beat a sam. once again i fail to see any relations to it in game. later in nin history they became bodygaurds of the rulers.

so what is the true rle of a nin ?


:confused: :confused:

[tdh]

NIN as a damage dealer? Does NIN even do as much damage as a MNK?

I just don't see NIN as a damage dealer. I've only really partied with them as of late. My NIN is Lv.12, but that was all solo. In leveling WAR, I was lucky enough to have NIN tanks for 3/4 parties. I pulled hate as the NIN recase Utsusemi. We had BLMs, so wasn't really paying attention to NIN damage.

I think, that even with the update, NINs will still be good tanks. But I'm starting to think that NIN was created purely for subjob usages. Much as a lot of SAMs tell me, SAM was created for subjob usage. (Some people tell me they LOVE leveling SAM, but I've met number of SAM35-40's saying they hate it, and only need it for a sub.)

[little ninja]

when you look at it, nin do damage much like a pld, or thf would, with there basic attack. its the A+ throwing where a nin will do its most damage.. but even then with no throwing weapon skill its really more for hate control. then say what a rng, would do.


a nin blink tanking just seems the best route for them. a pld rely on high def,sheild, an vit. to tank a mob, the nin relies on high evasion, agi, an blink...

the pld rely on cures an flash along with provoke to manage the hate. while nin rely on ninjitsu powders, throwing items, an provoke.


the downside to a nin blinking tanking is cost. it is alot of gil to blink tank every lvl. compared to a pld. also the lack of job traits an abilities. compared to a pld's sentinal, an cover. its def bonus. an so on..

nin does not do that much damage compared to a mnk. but add in a nin with capped throw, an it does outdamage the mnk. an just maybe a nin is more of a subjob class. i mean the damage a war/nin can do with 2 1 handed axes is insane, an when hate does turn blink saves them long enough for pld to gain hate.. war/nin at higher lvls is very deadly..

makes me think i lvl a subjob type class

[Malleus]

Most Nin don't do dmg b/c they don't TRY and do dmg. Do you honestly see Nin use Berserk, meat kabobs, shuriken, enfeebling, etc? I don't think so.

If you couple all that enfeebling w/a blm, the dmg could b disgusting. Also, some earlier posts demonstrate that the :Ni spells can burst off of chains for near 200+.

[Cade]

most nin sacrifice dmg for vit

lol... talk about bad ninjas....

Do you honestly see Nin use Berserk, meat kabobs, shuriken, enfeebling, etc? I don't think so.

um... I do, and just about every other ninja I know past lv. 40 does too....

[Jaggywaggy]

I think if ninja's sold all their evasion gear and got more attack,acc,str,dex, gear they could be good damage dealers.

Instead of all that evasion equipment, what about stuff like the kote(+20 attack but minus evasion or defense I believe), clearly not for tanking.

If ninjas went all out on damage dealing gear combined with haste gear and their dual wield traits at 10/25/45/65, they could probably put up not big numbers but great damage over time numbers. But it'd be at the cost of losing some of the evasion gear.

Parsers have shown 65+ ninjas keeping pace with drks in damage with mostly evasion gear on. That's enough reason for me to believe a ninja that went all out on attack gear could actually surpass. Not to mention the Ni enfeebles are decently damaging.

A ninja's damage strength would not lie in big attacks but it's speed of attack. And it could do this while doing poison,blind,slow to make the mages jobs easier and more effective.

I could see it. Ninja/warrior set for damage dealing provokes, has utsusemi on so no damage taken--->Ninja does WS, thf SATA+viper or whatever onto the main tank.

But the problem is invites, because no one believes ninja can be a damage dealer. Statics will just have to prove this wrong. And it's funny people judge the potienal of a damage dealer ninja through a tanking ninja lacking in +attk due to room for +evasion.

[little ninja]

i do go thru stacks of shurikens like i do blink. an i always use mithkabobs with berserk. the only thing i have yet to really try an do is go all out atk gear when i exp. most invites are for tanking, an most pts i made are with me as main tank, an while yes i do try to impliment my ubber drk gear for it. the pt usually asks me to switch gears around. nad use stuff with high evasion.

an i have used the kote. the -5 evasion didnt hurt me, considering the total number of evasion my guy wore. but the reason why most wont wear it is not because of the -5evasion. but for the insane cost of it..

[Kiyosuki]

Here's the thing. Ninja's have the distinction of being an Attacker, a Tank, and an Enfeebler/small magic attacker all *at the same time*. Ninja's don't give up any of they're abilities when tanking, they use them all.

So if someone decides he wants to be a damage dealer instead, he's basically just telling himself "I won't do one of my functions". Its not that its they're forced too, its just that they're at they're best up to now when tanking because they do every major melee function in one package.

A bit later, Dbl Atk+DWIV+Haste from Rdm or Whm+ Brd Haste and Haste gear such as speed belt, Fuma Kyahan, or Ninja AF body, and medium ranged one handed weapons.....is hardly bad offense. Ninja's have been known to outdamage other melee's in dot damage from 65 and on because they're sheer speed and hit count makes up for the average attack, much like Dual Wield should do. its the Weapon skills that don't take Ninja up to the Damage Dealer tiers at even those levels. Jin, Ten, and Ku are pretty good WS's though. Far better than the ones before it, but still not as damaging as Spinning Slash, Shark Bite, most of Rng's WS's with Sidewinder and the like.

But still, its balanced damage. I see Ninja's as in the same league as Warriors, they're variety melee. Where as Pld's are completely dedicated to tanking with few options in dealing damage, and DD's are completely dedicated to damage with little ways of taking abuse, Warriors and Ninja's are on the inbetween line between defender and attacker. Warriors are like Swiss Army knives in how they can switch they're function, and Ninja's are like a special weapon that doesn't transform, but does a bit of everything at once in function. Kind of like a rifle. But Warriors can push themselves towards a direction depending on they're sub, so they can lean more towards multiple functions. Ninja's instead, are a bit of everything rolled into one function. Balanced Attackers with the ability to divert the enemy's attack and enfeeble. Some argue that ninja's should be the job that does a bit of everything at once....well they do.

Thats why most like them as tanks, because its something they can easilly do while doing everything else they can do. Ninja's have been known to be in parties with Pld's later on in rare, last resort moments and have been known to do just fine there too. Its just that normally without a Pld, they can tank too.

[Malleus]

Again, I think most assume Nin are tanks and then build an argument from there; most of this is based on 1 real spell. 1. One. Uno. Ichi. (no pun intended ^^).

Anyways, it appears that SE is sending a msg by limiting the power of Utsusemi while at the same time increasing the flexibility and power of Paladins. Inherintly, it appears Palis are supposed to be tanks, while Nin are not. Just my opinion.

Swap all of your eva gear for att, str gear. Trade fish for meat, mnd for int, shihei for shuriken and then tell me you've seen a 40+ dmg dealing Nin. Otherwise, its a Nin, whose tanking and doing moderate dmg.

Oh, and thanks for keeping this civil, as most people get ridiculously emotional about a game and kill discussions that are quite entertaining. So thanks. And keep it coming.

[Niland]

the only way i can see nin/xxx becoming a dmg dealer is if they add throwing Weaponskills and rethink the throwing weapons: so its viable to use them without bankrupting yourself^^

[Caspian]

Originally posted by Niland
rethink the throwing weapons: so its viable to use them without bankrupting yourself^^

I've never really looked into crafting them or however, so pardon my ignorance, but why do they cost so damn much? Are they really that hard to come by? I've seen ONE shuriken go for 6k. WTF??? 6k for one shot of good dmg that may or may not connect?