So the almighty "Blink Tank" has fallen....kinda

[Madden]

Originally posted by Spider-Dan
...

I guess a full explanation is needed.

Single target spells eat one shadow. Single target TP attacks eat one shadow.

AOE spells (-ga) strip all shadows, whether they do damage (Aeroga) or not (Sleepga). This patch is making AOE TP attacks strip all shadows. What possible reason is there to believe that AOE direct-damage TP attacks will strip all shadows, but AOE status-effect TP attacks will NOT? The game does not care one bit about whether the action is direct-damage or status-effect (with regards to shadows).

You just still upset since people think you lazy because you cant even level up Ninja to 37 as tank so guess you can use this as an excuse.
Even if the change is like you think it wont destroy Ninja as tank just means that WHM cant watch DVD's while xp.

Now move to another job and cry wolf about something else.

[csBahamut]

Bah, it doesn't kill blink tanks, it just make them human now(as opposed to the unhittable gods they could become in a good player's hands).

You guy will just have to learn to take a few hits, or manage your blinks differently.

Maybe now everyone won't be so gung-ho and using a NIN tank for everything.


BTW....PLDs rock! XP

[Madden]

It won't and dont listen to the all mighty Spider-Dan, the man who knows everything about a change he not even seen in game yet just read one line about. Such a sad little person.

[TenTako]

i agree. they cant totally gimp a job cause they were too stupid to fix earlier on. if anything they should conform the game to what we, the players have made it. without us the population on servers would have to be 50% paladins and 50% every other class combined. i say F**K S-E for being this ignorant.

[Kagi]

16.67% pld -- tank : other job ratio is 1:5.

Anyway for the sake of my nin friends, I hope this update doesn't nerf blink tanking completely and just tones it down a little.

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by Madden
It won't and dont listen to the all mighty Spider-Dan, the man who knows everything about a change he not even seen in game yet just read one line about. Such a sad little person.

Keep sticking your head in the sand. I hope you have fun being the new Dragoon.

[stray]

The more I hear about it the more I think it has to be focused on physical AOE... things like Orc AOE and Whirl Claws. Generally however these are the kind of mob nobody wants to fight to begin with.

If however they're changing the way Utsusemi deals with something like a Bubble Shower or a Bomb Toss... then we have a problem. But those never affected shadows they just... hit right through... at which point it just doesn't make sense they'd change it.

[Gryff]

its not hard to macro your equipment for a full eva setup, or even swap to bat earrings and chug a blind potion.

the difference between my current exp setup and full eva setup is around ~30-40.

Problem? not for anyone willing to make two extra macros.

[ShokotanKnight]

Originally posted by stray
If however they're changing the way Utsusemi deals with something like a Bubble Shower or a Bomb Toss... then we have a problem. But those never affected shadows they just... hit right through... at which point it just doesn't make sense they'd change it. [/B]

That's just it, Bubble Shower and Bomb Toss will not only pass through, but they will strip Utsusemi as well...S-E just want to bring the Ninja job back to what they intended it to be, a highly evasive elemental enfeebler (I remember reading somewhere that Utsusemi was intended to only be used as an evasion 'helper' to Ninja, not to be used as a tanking tool)

[Jaggywaggy]

Seeing how with a ninja tank post 37, if you have a WM he finishes the battle with FULL MP, how is this that crippling? Oh no! The WM will have something to do besides casting haste and status cures. He might have to *Ghasp* use his mp

So insteading of finishing 90% mp the mage you brought to heal will be at now 60-75%? Big deal.

Ninja status: God-----> Another situational tank.

[Spider-Dan]

So now, you're talking about NINs regularly tanking without shadows, as if it's a perfectly legitimate option?

Would you have let a NIN tank with no shihei, regardless of how much +evasion he had?

The whole point of a NIN tank is that your healer doesn't have to blow through MP. If they do, why not just get a PLD or WAR? What is the possible benefit of the lower hate-generation of a NIN if you still have to heal them like any other tank?

[Gryff]

Originally posted by Spider-Dan
So now, you're talking about NINs regularly tanking without shadows, as if it's a perfectly legitimate option?

Would you have let a NIN tank with no shihei, regardless of how much +evasion he had?

The whole point of a NIN tank is that your healer doesn't have to blow through MP. If they do, why not just get a PLD or WAR? What is the possible benefit of the lower hate-generation of a NIN if you still have to heal them like any other tank?

the whole point of any tank is to make a group more exp efficient over time, typically this is done by reducing reducing the mp cost of healing in the case of paladin and ninja.

I dont know what level your ninja is ( maybe you would like to tell us? )


but you tanking vs an IT mob with +40 or higher evasion and tell me that the monster missing over 10 misses in a row isnt mp efficient or allows you to recover from losing blink.

[Jaggywaggy]

Ok that's it, because they'll lose their shadows once in a while, a ninja will take hits the entire battle and the Mages will go through amazing amounts of mp

And ninja isn't just a pld with less hate abilities. I'd like to see pld slow,blind,and poison the mob while tanking as pld/war. And they deal more damage over time too, especially at higher lvls with more dual wield bonuses.

And ninja,thf,rng/sam/drg makes a naturally good team with SCing off the ninja so the hate problem lies where? Not to mention drk/thf post 66 with their quality WSs finally.

Even if a ninja has a harder time tanking, they'll still be able to do it. If I understood the previous posts right, because a WM will have to use 10-20% more mp a battle(At the most) to heal they're completely screwed and we'll have massive downtime!?!?

It's just a nerf, a nerf to the most powerful class in the game(A tank that doesn't need a rdm or wm), not some disaster. It's being made human somewhat.

[Archain]

I don't post often, but I just wanted to pop one up here and let you guys know what I thought this was.

First, the different AOE types.

There are 5 different types of AOE. Maybe this applies to the physical AOEs to even it out with the magical ones. Currently Physical AOEs only remove one copied image (give it a shot with THF/NIN on the RDM AF3 robot...you can get through the entire fight without taking damage while other people are dead at your feet, Utsusemi absorbs a physical AOE with one shadow every time)

Unblinkable - Bomb Toss, Bubble Shower, Cursed Sphere, Blood Drain, Great Wheel, and Self-Destruct. These currently pass straight through Utsusemi and do direct damage regardless of evasion or Utsusemi. Damage reducers like stoneskin, phalanx, and barspells/bardsongs can reduce the damage taken from these.

Divider - 1,000 Needles and 10,000 Needles. These go straight through Utsusemi and do an amount of damage close to the number described in their titles and divide it between the number of people currently engaging the enemy. Evasion and Utsusemi have no effect on whether this lands or not.

Physical AOE - Sprout Spin, Whirling Rage, and Spinning Fin, and Battle Dance. These are the physical AOEs that are currently nullified with just one of Utsusemi's copied images. THFs and NINs with Utsusemi up could totally ignore the effects of the physical AOE stuns, DEX down, or slowness. I'm guessing that if anything needed to be fixed, it would have been this specific attack style. With Utsusemi stripped it would now go to an evasion check to determine whether or not the attack landed. This specific attack style was weird too in the fact that it totally disregarded the other shadows, it should have hit them as well.

Magic AOE (-ga) - Thundaga III, Firega, Diaga, Sleepga, Poisonga, Paralyzega, Dispelga, etc. These magical attacks strip all shadows and do damage directly to the player. Some of the attacks will require a check against magic defense to land. (i.e. Poisonga can be resisted, but will still strip shadows).

Directional AOE - Venom Spray, Plaguebreath, Silence Gas, and Wingcutter, etc. These are the AOEs that have an effect in a specific cone or arc of attack. Normally if a player like a THF is standing behind the tank when the enemy performs these types of attacks, they'll be affected as well.



In my opinion, I honestly think AOE physical attacks and not the AOE abilities will be addressed with this update. There's no way to really tell until they actually do the update though.

[kaitou]

There isn't a need to act like this is the end of blink tanking. Even if all AoE attacks remove utsusemi it may not be such a killing blow to ninjas.

For one, as someone suggested this may bring the san line into play. If they make utsusemi get knocked down from AoE that would suck when you just used ni, but if they then add utsusemi: san then ninjas after, what level 66? would have 3 blink spells for when they get knocked down from an AoE. This would make a much bigger difference from NIN main job, and NIN subjob also.

Not only that, but how many times do these monsters use AoE attacks in a fight? Its not like every attack is going to remove utsusemi and when it is you can just put on your evasion gear and wait it out. Yes it makes NIN, oh my god, maybe take some hits, but maybe thats what SE wanted. Maybe they didn't mean to make a job that can run out and get exp chain 3 solo on even matches at levels where other jobs struggle with easy prey.

We still dont know what AoE attacks will remove utsusemi, but this isn't an end to blink tanking, only another change in how it will be done.