Whats the point.....?

[RaidenDoria]

In studying the paths of both WAR and NIN ive noticed something im a bit confused about. I dont seem to understand the point in lv NIN to a High lv. Why? Well, Because at lv 75 nin can use utsusemi ichi/ni, but so can war. Only difference is that war does a LOT more dmg and gets much better weapons.

nin>war:

-Dual wield IV
-Cool looking not so hard hitting ws? (Blade: Ku)
-Slightly better blinking ability
-Ni debuffs (Yay V_V)

war>nin

-Crap load more damage
-Better or equal equip (war can equip almost all of nin evade equipment
-Much more versitile (able to sub thf for all out dmg)
-Greater selection of better weapons

So am i missing something that nin/war can do and war/nin cant?Mind you guys, i am a nin and im not posting this as not a nin suck topic. Im just trying to find some answers. Because im having a hard to justifying going all the way with nin/war instead of war/nin. Any answers/help/opinions would be greatly appreciated.

[Sasuke]

A WAR/NIN has low capped Ninjutsu skill and gets Ni at lv74.
NIN/WAR basically a blink tank 12-75 and WAR/NIN blink tank lv74-75

NIN/WAR a tank WAR/NIN a dmg dealer with mediocre blink tankin abilities till 74 I don't know u be the judge <.<?

[Kiyosuki]

Other people know a lot more about this than I do, but the basic gist of those levels is I rarely hear Ninja's at those levels complain about it. War/Nin supposedly has a very different style of tanking than Pld or Nin. Pld is the presense of full blown defense and hate absorb at the cost of offense and evasion, and Ninja is full blown evasive maneuvers and abilities to make you harder to hit, and balanced damage at the cost of defense and more powerful WS. War/Nin seems somewhat a hybrid of those two philosophies, not all but some of a Pld's defensive ability and hate keeping, and not all but some of Nin's evasive ability. Then whatever comes in the middle of mixing 50/50 of those attributes comes War/Nin. No matter what it can't dodge everything. It sounds like another alternative to me. Pld's better for some area's, Nin's better for some area's, War's better for some area's etc etc.

But like I said, some others here know more than I do about this. But way I figure it. As the game is now, the point of Ninja?

Well....who's going to blink tank for all those 74 out of 75 levels until Warriors can even think of doing this? Warriors can do this, but only really really really late in leveling, practically the last leg. The point of Ninja is well..you'll be wanted if you survive it for the rest of those levels. And even then blink tanker's are somewhat rare compared to others so Nin/War, or War/Nin will probably have a good chance of being picked up by those last two levels.

Hopefully CoP will add more abilities for either to distinctify them better at those levels.

[RaidenDoria]

All very true.
But consider this. If a war used all the same evade equip as a nin, he would have the exact same tanking abilities a nin would. Its not like nin gets evade+ bonus traits or anything. I guess im just a little fustraited with nin. Seeing as how SE only responce to the use of nin was "uuhh?". Because they werent "made to tank" and there not damage dealers. Sooo ?_? what? I understand your point though. I just would hate to get all the way to 74 and see another class doing what i do only better.

Some thfs could argue that drks are doing the same. But, thfs have alot of job traits that keep the job interesting and unique all through the lvs. We dont really have much of anything at all as far as traits and abilities (besides killing ourselves).

[Kiyosuki]

If War's had the same evasion equipment as a Ninja it would definitely not be the same. Rank C evasion, and Rank A evasion is a huge difference. And then Warriors would have to skip out on many of the equipments War's tend to want to use to get evasive gear, which is pointless. One thing I do know for sure, is that War/Nin's at higher levels don't try to make themselves Ninja's, they try to fight like War/Nin, they're own unique way. Trying to turn themselves into Ninja's is just pointless, they need to concentrate on what makes Warriors great.

Ninja's a job thats an uphil climb, it gets better as you get higher so the low levels can be rough. By the 60's though Ninja's are a bit of a damage dealer/renkei partner/tank/enfeebler in one. Difference between War and Nin is that Nin is all those things at the same time, making it kind of like the all purpose melee all at once, where as War's tend to focus on one aspect of their flexible style more depending on what sub they use for what situation. Like /Sam post meditate for SC partnering, /Thf for slight SATA post 60, and /Nin for back up tanking/damage dealing, and all that.

[Kesai]

War/nin's cannot boost there evasion anywhere close to nin main levels. The C rank evasion vs. A rank evasion is also readily apparent even at low lvl's.

War/nin's use utsusemi at the start mainly as a hate builder, after the first 6 hits the war/nin will have a pretty solid lead on hate if they manage to get some good hits in. At least that has been my experience thus far with war/nin up to lvl 30 =P

From browsing the war forums utsusemi: ni is also slightly nerfed with nin as a subjob giving 3 shadows instead of 4. I of course have no way to verify this for myself.

In either case war/nin is capable of doing more melee damage then nin/war due to superior WS, but they will not be able to make shadows last as long as nin main. They will also lose out on having the ni line of elementals and debuffs, which is somewhat significant. Ni blind and slow are very effective and the blm loves nuking to whatever element that has just been debuffed. From what I understand ni elementals lower resistance by about 20 points.

Also high level nin/whm or nin/war + rdm can solo/duo some pretty interesting things =P

Cost is also something to consider, while nin is not a cheap job, war/nin is definatly not for the light of wallet considering that they will need to have 2 sets of gear, a defensive set and a offensive set. Along with multiple weapons (Gaxe, 1h axe, sword etc).

[ZQM]

Against slow attacing mobs like flies w/ BRDs elegy and WHM slow, paralyze, and blind, I can blink tank nearly the whole fight, expecially if there's a THF and RNG to make the fights end quickly.

w/o Elegy, or against faster attacking mobs, WARs get raped hard.

WAR is also good with a good SMN. Utsusemi > Utsusemi > Blink > Utsusemi > Stoneskin > fight ends. But, again, needs to be slow mobs.

Also the :Ni buffs are nothing to scroff at. -60 evasion, and mobs still missed me when I pulled hate off of the NIN when he used Kuriyama: Ni. And Hojo: Ni + Elegy + Slow makes the mob's ATK speed plummet sooooooooooooooo much.

[Ozymandis]

Originally posted by Sasuke


A WAR/NIN has low capped Ninjutsu skill and gets Ni at lv74.
NIN/WAR basically a blink tank 12-75 and WAR/NIN blink tank lv74-75

From 24 to 36, WAR/NIN is a superior blink tank to NIN/WAR. NIN can avoid hits well at this point with nice +evade equip, but the damage differential is high.

From 37-73, it's all NIN. WAR/NIN is a sort of last-ditch tank, I'd take a PLD or NIN over myself tanking in most situations. Between 30-50/55 WAR/THF is the better combination.

What WAR/NIN does offer is versatility and after 50, DoT comparable to monk.