im seeing nin/rng alot more now

[Lil Dreamer]

Originally posted by knox
Yea, god forbid anybody wants to be original and have fun with what they want to be!

moron

are u illiterate or are u just one of those A.D.D victims that can't read a whole thread through before replying?

[Starwinderbeta]

The last three replys are obviously made by hyprocritical idiots. You say I spam with my opinion of being original, yet you're spamming by further dragging the thread along with useless insults.

Hypocritical idiots, indeed.

Kiyosuki, I appreciate the post. I see where you're coming from. In the past, when I recieved party invites, no one seemed to mind my combination, so I stayed with it. The party did well, and we recieved plentiful amounts of exp; it wasn't bad.

As long as you do what's asked of you by the party leader, there should be no problem.

Don't mistake me for a stubborn fellow, though. I do see exactly where you're coming from, and I appreciate you taking the time to type all that. Such use of metaphors...

Your post, even though common sense, was pretty insightful, unlike the idiotic posts made by fellows such as Lildreamer and Tokri...

They're both on my ignore list now, so all is well.

[obsidian]

Well they are right you combo is dumb. It just simply is. In fact, I couldn't think of a worse combo than /drg, seriously. Maybe /smn but that is it. BTW, just because you think the xp is "ok" doesn't make your combo good.

But I guess it really doesn't matter. I have since learned how to avoid such experience leeches like yourself. I think Kiyosuki said it all. At least when it comes to partying, you should be doing everything in your power to better it. That's what I do and it is what I expect of others. NIN/DRG or NIN/THF don't cut it. If you really want to use that combo go solo.

[poweryoga]

maybe somewhere you failed to see that there's 5 other paying customers in your party. You're not playing by yourself, how well you perform affects everybody in the party. If by being "original" you detract from other people's overall gaming experience, then you're being selfish and an exp leech. Some subs just don't work. Drg is one sub that doesn't go with anything.

Doing whatever the hell you want is selfish and inconsiderate. This is a community, not "just a game where I'm boss and since I pay for it I can do whatever the fuck i want". You seem to froget there's about 2000 people around you that pay for the game too.

If your pt doesn't care, then good for you, because you found a pt to leech off.

Just don't expect to get a party beyond 37 if you don't sub war. Its all fun and games till someone gets pissed because you're subbing whatever useless sub you have. Unless you're soloing, then I guess nobody WOULD care.

Not doing some very simple things to smooth out exp flow makes you either short sighted, stubborn, selfish, or combination of the above. Don't get upset if people start telling you to sub war as you get higher level.

[Starwinderbeta]

Thanks for pointing out what everybody else has stated to death.

[knox]

Originally posted by Lil Dreamer
are u illiterate or are u just one of those A.D.D victims that can't read a whole thread through before replying?

#2

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by Starwinderbeta
Thanks for pointing out what everybody else has stated to death.

Here's the thing, though:

Either you think that he is wrong, or you are knowingly an exp leech.

If you think that he is wrong, then you should be able to provide some sort of logical basis to explain why. You haven't.

So if you do not dispute the truth and validity of what poweryoga said, then you are intentionally worsening the gameplay for others, for completely selfish reasons. Do you see why this would make others react in the way that they have?

[Starwinderbeta]

I said that I understood. Case closed.

So I don't understand the reason why people keep replying with the same thing.

[Kiyosuki]

Well I'm not the type that gets angry over such things. But looking at the other side I believe that is because Ninja's a very demanding up hill climb of a job. But when all is said and done its rewards are really worth it, and make people very proud of it because not everyone has the tenacity to level Ninja. Then when one comes and says they wish to try something different than /War, its usually done in a way that makes it sound like they think Nin/War is a "bandwagon combo" thats only used by the unoriginal and narrow minded. Although I don't see why its a reason to get a little upset, I can understand the reason. Nin/War is a lot more of a flexible combo than most first think, and its also very demanding and practice inducing to take it to its best results. So when someone comes and makes that out to be nothing but mindless power gaming or "unimaginative playing", its a little peeving I guess.

Thats half of it. There's also the fact that Ninja has a high learning curve, so naturally, there will either be those who are awsome at it and eventually understand its style while fitting it to they're own, or theres those who just can't and end up being god awful for various reasons. With Ninja due to its learning curve compared to the other jobs, those types tend to be a little higher in number than good Ninja's. So people tend to take in the "Don't tarnish the name of the Ninja!" attitude Its a combination of that and the above reason I believe why people get a little uptight about when someone tries to use unorthodox combo's that just don't do well just for the sake of wanting to be one of a kind. Like how many Red Mages feel about Rdm's using Rdm/Nin in a party seriously, or Paladin's with anyone who doesn't sub /War in parties. It feels like someone's either unintentionally, or wordlessly calling them "mediocre" despite all the hard work they put into being a useful party member while they say they're original and awsome, yet arn't really helpful at all and just tend to be an empty braggart.

I understand the reason, but I don't like how some people tend to take it too far and insult any kind of research put into alternatives. Like how Spider Dan recently made a huge thread about Ninja/Ranger and its particular uses, as are some others on Killing Ifrit with some pretty interesting results I hear.
But you see, they do it the right way I believe. They don't discount Nin/War off the bat and many times say its superior..because it just is most of the time. But then they offer conclusive and convincing evidence towards they're findings. Trying to give an alternate idea, rather than a blatant "never mind you guys and your boring combo's! I'm doing War/Whm!" style that many others take up, weither its intentional or not. Now there were also some people who gave him and those others a hard time for it, saying "Sub war biatch!" and the like, those guys are in the wrong too but its for different reasons than I'm talking here..Fact is, is he didn't do it to annoy people or make himself special, he was just doing a bit of good old RPG gameplay by experimenting. The Japanese do it all the time in a pretty chill manner, with often unsuccessful results but when it is tried its taken seriously and with thought. I'm all for experimentation, I think its great in MMORPG's. But I do understand to that there are subs that are the standard, as well as the best in most regards. As well as subs that just don't work no matter what, and etc etc stuff I mentioned in my last post. Like I totally think Drg/Whm works in some situations, its been proven in an informative manner and has been experimented with. Some think its foolishness, but I don't. It may be more limited than the melee subs, but it has some fully bonafide uses. I think Rdm/Brd works in some rare cases as well, and Pld/Nin's been known to be used in some HNM hunts (only! lol). If it works to a degree in some situations, I think its cool. But combo's like Rdm/Nin in parties, War/Whm, Nin/Thf, Whm/War (wtf...lol), Drk/Pld etc I personally agree don't work no matter whats argued, because it always goes back to the same low results in parties. If it can be proven, then its cool. If not, well don't expect to be taken seriously.

I think thats really the best way to go. There really are just some subs that just don't work no matter what, and some subs that work awsomely. But that shouldn't stop people from really trying to find alternative arguments seriously. Thats how cool combo's are found. Just remember that its for the sake of making an alternative idea, not a replacement just for the sake of being different. I think true uniqueness comes from doing something different, AND making it work. Otherwise a person's just a bag of hot air.

Now I'm not saying you were like this, because I can tell you weren't. Howevern , unintentionally you may have come off as somewhat condescending by giving no particular reason for doing something that doesn't really work, just for the sake of beind "different from the rest". Now I know you didn't do that intentionally, but it may have come off seeming like that. While some people seriously need to chill, often times its just people don't want they're favorite class to be seen in a bad light by beating an old horse. Thats all. Its really the same in all MMORPG's. The social effect of things from real people's the charm and at the same time, upset of mmo gameplay really. Its what makes it unique. You'll understand in the future, I hope you'll do well.

[CarbonFibre]

Like in xp parties where I complain about useless subs, terrible equipment, and people playing their jobs like crap. Am I just a crab when I'm unsatisfied getting like 1.5k xp in an hour? Here's something I hear a lot from people: "some xp is better than no xp." Sometimes I'd just rather wait a lot longer for a good party than be in a terrible to mediocre one. Another thing that really got to me was when someone said that I practically have no right to complain about a bad party as a Samurai. It's like the guy thought that he was doing me a tremendous favor by inviting me, and that I should be kneeling in respect for any single invite I get.

A somewhat positive experience that I had in a terrible party was teaching the thief how to do his job (at 53 mind you). Since I was the "trick partner," getting pummeled at the start of the fight got old. The thief would engage and hit the mob a couple times, then use SATA to trick onto the PLD. I taught her to use SATA before shooting a mob to pull it so that she can trick a lot faster and have fuidama ready earlier in the fight (only something I learned by observing other thieves). The individual was under the impression that the job ability of trick attack had to be used while behind the PLD, so I explained that it only applied to the actual strike of the weapon. It's somewhat understandable since thieves don't really party with other thieves. It was annoying at first, but I was at least satisfied that he/she actually was open to suggestions. Nothing gets me like someone that sucks at their job, believes they're awesome, and won't listen to anything when people try to help them.

PS: In another party, the DRK with the underleveled sub wanted to know why our skillchain didn't work. I told him that it was because his weaponskill missed. He kept arguing that it didn't, and that I was full of it. >>>
"Check the log for yourself, you missed."
"I don't need to check the log because I didn't miss."
Let's just say I wasn't in the party much longer.

[Lightseeker]

I'd actually like to see this thread get back on topic. NIN/RNG -- why are there more of them? What levels are they most useful?

I haven't leveled NIN in a while and I'm thinking of getting back to it this weekend. I subbed WAR before, and was usually puller/blink-tanker in my parties. However since I don't have Ni yet, I needed another tank to voke off me, and I had problems sometimes with holding hate. Now that I've got RNG leveled a bit, I'm thinking maybe I should go NIN/RNG?

It seems to make more sense at lower levels when blink-tanking isn't as effective, and I've been dreading Kazham b/c the onions are monks and blink-tanking is pretty much impossible (or so it seems to me). I don't want to start a RNG v. WAR flame, I'm just wondering if /RNG would be a better sub from 22-30ish? I don't care about cost -- I'm willing to blink-tank or pull or whatever. All I care about is being of the most use to my party.

[imac2much]

I followed Dan's idea and tried out NIN/RNG... it definitely works in Kazham, but its usefulness drastically drops off afterwards. Even in Altep, it's not quite as useful. However, he never implied that this was the best subjob or anything for all levels, he said that it's good for low levels (Kazham) and with that I heartily agree.

The thing is, as you gain levels, the level gap between you and the IT monsters you fight grow wider and wider. This means that monsters you xp off of will gradually have more and more relative evasion compared to ones you fought at low levels. Due to not as many useful +RNG ACC gear for NIN (well, they can use the RNG ACC rings and Archer Knives, but they don't get the RNG ACC from Ranger Necklace, RNG AF, RNG passive traits, etc), they'll progressively have harder times hitting the mobs.

Even in Kazham, I could not hit IT very well... only when I use sharpshot. But when I did use sharpshot, I outdamaged everyone by far (Hyoton: Ichi -> Hot Shot = 190-200 damage). Of course, another problem is that this combo can only be played by people with deep wallets... bullets are 9-10k a stack, and you easily go through 3-4 stacks per xp session.

The only reason I outdamaged everyone is because I was spending the most money. If we had a RNG/WAR or RNG/NIN using guns he'd most likely outdamage me as well.

On beetles in Altep, they frequently use an evasion up skill, so even with sharpshot you can hardly hit those..... have fun wasting tons of gil for no benefits.

But I agree, NIN/RNG makes an acceptable DD at low levels, usually trumping the others solely because of the money you spend. IMO this is only good from levels 22 (when you can use bullets) ~ 31 (when you generally leave Kazham). But in that small level range it's not shabby at all.

So to answer your question Lightseeker, yes I do believe NIN/RNG is more useful than NIN/WAR at those levels *IF* you are xping in kazham. PLD is better suited to tank those monk type mobs, but let's be honest....... even a BLM can tank mandrags -_- They do such relatively weak damage for their con/level it's ridiculous. When I went from yhoat mandys (hitting me for 15-20's) to beetles (70-90's) , that was a damn drastic jump.

I think NIN/RNG would be a nice DD at high levels if NIN got a throwing WS...... but hell, shurikens are even more expensive than bullets..... poor bums need not apply (including me)

[replica]

sigh.. why not just play THF/nin..? Clearly, a ridiculously superior option to NIN/thf imo~

[Lightseeker]

I gave nin/rng a try this weekend, playing as puller in Qufim. Got from 22 to 25 pretty quickly, considering the competition for mobs was pretty high. It's definitely more enjoyable than trying to blink-tank at that level. Having a "real" tank in the form of a pld made life much easier. I went through half a stack of shihei but 3 stacks of bullets, it was actually MORE expensive than blink-tanking, lol. I'm setting aside nin again for a while -- I only wanted to get dual wield 2 so i could sub nin on my rdm for quests and farming. Might pick it up again later, and I'll definitely go nin/rng in Kazham, now that I've seen the potential.

[Mitsu]

Bleh Nin/Rng has its potential. I personally witha an underleveled sub...75nin/27rng...have dealt over 5k in damage to Seiryu. Of course its more expensive (if you dont make your shuriken) but the potential is there. I averaged a 90% hit rate with 70-100 damage per star, and threw ~110 stars per God Hnm. Crunch on those numbers also not to mention that I can throw 2-3 stars before a rng can squeeze off one shot. All that is needed is throw ws and ill bet 99 mil gil that NIN/RNG will pop up all over the place. Me personally I want to use A wind (250 D throw item) with throw ws....PWNAGE. Unfortunately for lvling NIN/WAR is the only way to go. but as you hit that endgame the story changes.