+Evasion equipment useless for NIN tank?

[Spider-Dan]

OK, stop laughing.

Seriously, it seems pretty obvious to me that +Evasion is vital to a NIN tank. However, I've seen some other players claim that Evasion is not needed "at higher levels," because blind/slow/paralyze is enough, and that you should forego all Evasion equipment for ATK, ACC, or Enmity equipment.

I'd like some of the higher level NINs to weigh in with your opinion of the importance of Evasion for a NIN tank, if you don't mind. Thanks.

[Arien20]

I think a lot of it depends on the party setup, Do you have a thief to help with hate? Etc.. Personally i went the Evasion route.. and it helps because i rarely mess up timing, (i.e always have enough shadows ready.) That to me is important. I keep hate decently without all the +attack gear. I might pick up a Mermaid ring, but thats besides the point .


-A

[Navia]

If there is a BRD, then I swap out Life belt for Survival belt.
Sometimes swapping out sniper rings for tiger rings.
SMN with fenrir and a BRD in pt makes acc gear almost pointless.

Last night I had rdm,blm,whm,mnk,rng,nin party so I had to go with lifebelt and snipers to stay ahead on hate because howling fist>sidewinder does some obscene damage and Perytons are tough to land hits on.

It all depends on what your pt makeup is and what monster you are fighting.
If the monster isn't staying interested in you, and you are blink tanking perfectly - using berserk, getting haste boots + haste cast on you usually fixes it. If you have trouble still, your weapons need an upgrade or your +acc sucks :p

Even when I get a bomb queen ring and jelly ring, amemit cape+1 I wouldnt get rid of my bat cape and sniper rings - adjusting your equipment while xping is sometimes necessary, I think its a mistake to only go with 1 equipment setup and expect it to work everywhere.

[Razz]

Navia, I noticed in your outfit page that you equip a bone dagger....can you tell me why? I always thought daggers were weak and useless for a ninja?

[Navia]

Dagger is far from being useless if used in the offhand or main hand in some cases, as explained below.

Strangely enough, sometimes its better at keeping hate than a muketsu +1 27/222 hp drain effect because the dagger is much faster and gives atk and +acc (also my muketsu+1 isnt listed in allakhazam's DB so I put my alternate dagger in the slot).

I used bone kife +1 in the offhand for quite a few levels because the fast accurate hits helped keep hate with the mainhand using katana for ws.

The +1 katana at level 61( 3k xp to level orz ) is pretty nice so the bone knife +1 at that point wont get used much. However I have a garuda dagger in mog safe i'll be trying out when I hit 65 for the silence effect to improve my farming speed against stuff like dark elementals and other spell casters, it may prove useful in xp'ing against highlevel goblin mages or somesuch maybe.

I can easily solo kuftal crabs as nin/whm for coffer keys and xp if i put the dagger in mainhand and energy drain them for mp to stoneskin/regen/etc.
Ninja's can get access to stun daggers (kuhkri) at a lower level than stun katanas.

[ZQM]

Originally posted by Navia
gives atk and +acc

With the C rank in daggers, there's an 13 skill difference between katanas and daggers at 60. So really, by equiping it instead of a katana, you're getting -8 ATK and -8 ACC.

IMO, the only dagger that should even be considered is Lust for evasion bonus. Daggers are the worst damaging weapons in the game, and the "bonuses" you get like ATK and ACC are actually nulified by the lower skill level.

[Navia]

A 185 delay katana and 190 delay dagger wins out by sheer speed, the boosts on the dagger help offset the weaker offhand accuracy by making the main hand attacks stronger and more accurate.

I dont see my dagger hand missing much more than my katana, if that difference of 8pts just for offhand attacks made such a difference i'd never use bone knife+1 again. I can always swap to muketsu+1 anytime, but that is not the case after extensive xp'ing with both combinations.

Fast light hits keep the monster insterested in me, thats all i care about, I dont pt with thf's to built hate so I rely on speed.
The extra one third of a second delay on the muketsu+1 is very noticable and creates less hate even though it does more damage in my opinion.

[Mitsu]

First the issue of dagger usage. I have used lust dagger in one of my pt sessions in Dragons aery and ill tell ANY ninja that stackin AGI is not all that great. At 69 I had a total of +38 Agi added and it didnt help my tanking ability. What it did was creat hate issues because daggers have lower D and lower skill cap, This branches into navias set up. From 60 on up if you use ANY other weapon besides katana then you are seriously gimping yourself. Im not saying this blindly I have ALL weapons from dagger to gun capped on my ninja till lvl 72 and I have tried G katanas, daggers, swords and guns with MUCH experimentation, i have concluded that if you want the best mileage from your ninja i suggest sticking with katanas past that 60 mark. The best part of nin tanking ability is to hold hate through damage at later levels.

[Navia]

Just to be clear I would never dual wield dagger weapon for xp pt, that doesn't work.
I have had success using bone knife+1 in the 2nd hand over the best katana I can possibly equip for my level against monsters in boyhada,kuftal,terrigan and valley of sorrows - your milage may vary :p - maybe mithra extra stats in dex offset the slight gimpness of dagger accuracy at my level, who knows :sweat:

The skill cap is only getting wider on dagger versus katana, and the level 61 katana are pretty nice boost in damage compared to the yoto/kageboshi/hien katanas most ninjas use at lower levels.

Kabutowari+1 does blow away dagger weapons when I can use it next level, no arguement there, still i'm a speed freak so I am trying to get ahold of
another NM katana - Kitsutsuki level 64 26dmg/185dly (Vs.Plantoid : Critial Hit Rate+5%) rare+ex
I am more accustomed to the timing of ninjitsu/attack flow with faster weapons.

Btw mitsu have you tried shiva claws against bones?
:spin: I know +8acc doesn't offset our horrid skill ranking on hand2hand but its a fun weapon type to mess around with on occasion during skillup/coffer/af parties.

Going back to the evasion topic, as for the whole amemit cape+1 or bat cape when I hit 61, I dont know whats going to be better, it will depend on how well I fare against toramas in onzozo (>_<; )

[ZQM]

Navia- Have you tried to Kidney Dagger (DMG: 18 DLY: 183 CRIT+5%)? It has better DMG and lower Delay then Bone Knife +1, and crits are always good for keeping hate. +5% isn't much though. :sweat:

[Mitsu]

Toramas in onzozo eh?...><. First let me warn you of the insanely high evasion they will have. Now with that being said unless you have thf in your pt hate will become an issue. This is where acc and damage plays a big part, if you dont have snipers use eye ball or optical. Nin hate is 1/2 damage 1/4 Voke 1/4 ninjutsu. The odd thing about ninja is that evasion will slowly become less of a priority dependant on your pt set up and knowing what to fight. Toramas have annoying status effects but CAN be stopped if you fight backwards, counting delay, then turn to attack....rinse repeat. As far as shivas claws, i tried em against bones and ONLY way they could work is to use mnk sub and even then my damage and overall FUN was better with katana. But to hit on the evasion thing once again, I advise getting 2 sets of gear. Acc and Evasion, however at later levels you will find that your nin can do a great deal with acc it just may cost a bit.For example, just last night in my pt in Ruavitau against Aura golems, I kept hate extremly well with just melee and voke and ending a dark renkei, but then again I structured my ninja around acc and evasion with a strong emphasis on acc.

[Madden]

Not sure what items I like best but use these 90% of the time:

2x Mamushito +1
Ungur's Boomerang
Optical Hat
Royal Guard's Collar
2x Drone Earrings
Scorpion Harness
Seiryn's Kote
2x Tiger Rings (Breeze Rings just need them up in AH ; ; )
Amemit Mantle
Life Belt
Koga Hakama
Rasetsu Sune-Ate

If things work out I maybe can have Byakko's Haidate next week and also thinking of going with 2x Fudo but really like the stun proc ^^

[2.0]

Only one person answered the person's question really. To stay on topic. Yes it is good to have evasion equipment. No it is not good to have too much evasion equipment. As always balance is the key.