How far without Utsusemi?

[Ungerpurr]

Well, my main job is monk, which means, at level 60, I'll be expected to have a thf sub leveled up, which means, at level 20 on the thf, I'll probably be expected to have a nin sub leveled up....and nin, at level 12 (I think?) will be expected to have Utsusemi.

Sooooo...considering I already did the quest and sold the scroll for cash (go go Ochiudo's Kote) do you think I would have too much trouble getting groups from 14-18 without Utsusemi? I would certainly put it in my search comment that I didn't have it so as to not give people the wrong impression. I think it might become a problem though, because ninja damage is rather....subpar, and without blink, they aren't extraordinary tanks (although really, no worse than a warrior, I guess).

Thougts?

[Sasarai]

just sub warrior, you don't have to sub nin.

personally, it's my belief if that you don't level with utsusemi, you're worthless. leveling up without utsusemi and still trying to be effective is pretty futile.

I'll give you a helpful suggestion I guess.

Get someone to powerlevel you to 18 on your NIN, should be fairly easy to do. I didn't start becoming a main tank with utsusemi until 17, but I was a secondary tank before that level, and Utsusemi was very dear and near to me.

I have leveled NIN to 36 as a subjob.

[Ungerpurr]

hmmm :/ sounds rather bleak, heh. I'd prefer to do thf/nin, for being able to get another dex item in the offhand, but I don't want to put myself through torture in trying to find groups, and I personally hate it when people don't have the proper scrolls (whm w/o erase, blm without -gas, etc.).

Ugh. I guess I already am mithra, which puts me above non-mithra thieves for sneak attack damage anyway. I guess I'll just do without the ninja sub, saves me time in the long run, anyway.

Thanks for the advice.

[Vertigo]

You do not really need Ninja sub for thief till lvl 50+. In my opinion Ninja only really becomes effective past 50, when Dual Wield II comes in to play, and double/triple cancels eachother out.

I would just sub war if I were you, with provoke you are a great assist to a party and people will invite you for that pre15.

On my server most lower lvl people (all hail PS2) do not even know what a ninja does and think its for damage

[Regulat0r]

I sub ninja and I im a lvl 36 thf. Being able to use a mithran scimitar in my 2nd, extra agility and dexterity, and looking cool with 2 weapons is really fun ^^

[K9999]

mnk with a thf sub is a really shitty choice. war>* for mnk subs

[Madden]

I say you could get to lvl 37 without any Utsusemi since Ninja kind of blows until then so just PT with a PLD or WAR and let them tank ^^

[ZQM]

Originally posted by K9999
mnk with a thf sub is a really shitty choice. war>* for mnk subs

But if the party is something like.....Mage, Mage, Mage, RNG, Tank, DD, post 60 it'd be good for the DD to have /THF to keep hate on the tank. If a MNK is the only DD on, then it'd be best for the party for him to go /THF so the tank has more hate.

Though when it comes to being pure damage (i.e. a THF or DRK/THF in the party), then /WAR all the way.

[Ungerpurr]

K9999, thank you for your incredible insight. I'll keep that in mind when I hit 60 and everyone who invites me into a group expects that I have thf sub leveled up to increase renkei damage / avoid hate.

[Omena]

I guess thf/war works just fine, but I personally love being thf/nin.
When things go bad I can surprisingly often take hate with sneak and tank even better than your average ninja (without utsusemi: ni) as long as I have hate.

I also my mithran scimitar and the added stats and my ability to pull without being almost dead when I get to camp.

My survivability and flexibility as thf/nin just seems to be endlessly better than as thf/mnk.

...and back to the question! I started using utsusemi at L13.

[K9999]

im 67 mnk so far and even have thf lvled up and yet i have never been told to sub it for whatever reason. double atk + berserk > sa/ta for raw dps

[Ungerpurr]

I'm well aware that warrior sub far far FAR exceeds thf sub for damage output. However, I've also read that people expect a thf sub to be leveled up, kinda like they do with drks. I'm not particularly happy about it, but if I lost even one in five PT invites in the 60s because I didn't have a thf sub...Baby Jesus would cry.

[pheK]

you can go to lv11 without utsusemi

[Weezingpipes]

K9999, thank you for your incredible insight. I'll keep that in mind when I hit 60 and everyone who invites me into a group expects that I have thf sub leveled up to increase renkei damage / avoid hate.

MNK/THF isn't overly impressive for whatever reason by 60 from what I've seen. Honestly you are better off leveling thf up for farming purposes more so than exping, I've just never seen a situation where a MNK with a THF sub was really needed.

[evilution]

MNK/THF isn't overly impressive for whatever reason by 60 from what I've seen. Honestly you are better off leveling thf up for farming purposes more so than exping, I've just never seen a situation where a MNK with a THF sub was really needed.

thats because as a DRG you will never get invites to Toomb / Tunnel groups to fight undead. A MNK/THF (trick / sneak -> dragon kick to close the chain for 1200 damage) really shines as you pull in the best high level xp in the game =/