How Good is Ninja?

[Xsodaz]

I've pretty much played DRk ever since i got my advance, (represent drk nation to the fullest..^^) anywayz after resting for 3 month (everyone i knew are like lvl wayyy up....sigh) I'm thinking about starting ninja, any ninja pro out there can tell me alittle about ninja?

[Cid2020]

heya ^^

i'm not a pro but, i heard it costs a lot of money, like to buy your ninja scrolls.

[711rocks]

you can quest for the scrolls, the tools cost money

[Tsubame]

It is in my opinion tied for the most expensive job, about equal to Ranger if you play to the utmost of your abilities.

Parties will love you as a tank, and your damage-output will be higher than most tanks. Played well, a party will never take any damage with you around, reducing downtime to 0 (and eliminating the need for a WHM, if your feeling brave). However, make a mistake and you will get hit...HARD.

Ninja have very high costs as well, though not only from powder. Powder is used for every ninja spell, and each spell requires a different powder. You need the best evasion armor you can get (every time you dodge is one more round before you have to recast Utsusemi), as well as the best weapons you can get (to help keep hate on you) Top of the line evasion/attack gear will cost you a lot, then you have to keep your powders stocked, you should use throwing weapons (like shuriken) to deal extra damage and keep hate, and you need gobbie bags to carry all of this. Not cheap at all.

But if you are willing to put up with it, you can be a very very valuable asset to a party.

[hocuspocus]

that sounds about right.

[Ozymandis]

Let me put in my short-and-sweet opinion about the worth of ninjas:

When paired with a good thief and the right type of enemy Ninja is simply the best tank (pre-74 maybe?).

I love partying with a Ninja tank over any other. No downtime and damage almost on-par with a Warrior tank. Almost no need for healing except with AoEs. But then again I'm a WAR/NIN. I always have Utsusemi up myself and have Defender plus a macro to switch to heavier armor. I can see why other jobs like Ranger prefer Paladin tanks.

[Stanislav]

Originally posted by Ozymandis
Let me put in my short-and-sweet opinion about the worth of ninjas:

When paired with a good thief and the right type of enemy Ninja is simply the best tank (pre-74 maybe?).

I love partying with a Ninja tank over any other. No downtime and damage almost on-par with a Warrior tank. Almost no need for healing except with AoEs. But then again I'm a WAR/NIN. I always have Utsusemi up myself and have Defender plus a macro to switch to heavier armor. I can see why other jobs like Ranger prefer Paladin tanks.

Ninja is still better after 74 becuase ninjas evade when a warrior looses his Utsusemi really quick.

[Kiyosuki]

I think the best way to describe this job is like a Mirror.

With all other melee jobs, you study a little into your strategies and your various techniques and uses, and otherwise you get like, 60% output from 30% input. If you put in 40% output you get 80% output and so on. It ranges, Ranger can be challenging to play it looks like. But I don't think any other melee job in the game reflects the player as much as Ninja does.

The Ninja job is like a reflection of the player behind it. Its 100/100. You put in 30% input, you get 30% input. You put in 100% input, you get 100% input. The more you put into this class, the more you get out of it. The less you put into this class, quit the job. There's no cutting corner's. There is no sitting around, hitting. Waiting for the right moment to do a skill chain or do what you have to do. You have to be there 100% at all times.. Little things like parrying, evasion, what stats you raise matter more.

All I can say is that, if you meet a really good Ninja, your respect for that player is far more than any other class I think. The skill you see come from a good Ninja, is 100% from the player. Its a very flexible class, and probably the most mobile and in the moment job. There's a real good reason why Ninja's past 37 are quite rare. Many players who raised Ninja as a sub say it was a total struggle for them, it made jobs like Thief and Ranger seem like vacations in comparison. Many couldn't believe how I, and any other Ninja past 40 could put up with it.

You know why? Because I think for certain kinds of players its the perfect job. This is a job of specifics, and intricate attention to detail. Even though most use Nin/War, there's still a number of variations between all Ninja's I know that make them all individually unique. Some Ninja's perfer full blown attack in they're equip, relying on some luck and perfect blink timing. Some Ninja's perfer Accuracy so they hit more. Some Ninja's like to mix they're weapons, some don't. There's Ninja's that like Evasion like me, who get used to counting the shadows when they're lost and really love the extra time. Some Ninja's like Attack, some Ninja's like Attack/Accuracy, some Ninja's like Evasion/Accuracy, or even maybe a total balance of Attack/Accuracy/Evasion. Its a really fun class to experiment with since its so "loose", the raised difficulty and cost are small prices to pay, but those make the job even more flexible for the player to use.

Ninja's are wonderful tanks, and they can fight pretty damn good. When you see Ninja character's in games, movies, anime etc, they're usually pretty hardcore and strict in they're training and skill to be that hardcore. Its the same here. Its not a class for the light hearted, or the type that like the "easy way out". If you try to find the easy way out using Ninja, you won't survive the 30's, the 40's at most. If you want something different, something where little details matter give Ninja a shot. Just don't expect a cake walk, but no other job in this game can quite compare to how impressive you can be with that extra effort and detail.

[Mitsu]

OMG. people dont understand the concept of blink tanking and assume that WAR/NIN can take over at 74. While it looks good on paoer the war/nin combo can only replace the pitifull nin/war. Even at 69 i see where my evade/agi makes it alot easier to avoid getting hit. Yes while ninja can deal the damage of a warrior your focus is not to deal damage but to hold the mob while your Party does it. Its all about what works best. Example if you have NIN DRK THF RDM WHM BRD (my set) you establish a good relationship with your drk and whm as well as brd. Brd does carnage elegy that in itself makes it easy to tank, but if it doesnt work ...ninjutsu can get the job done. Also lets say you have done the NI NI and about to cast Ichi is you Utsu cycle. Set up a <call> macro for stun......then a <call> macro for flash with that you basicly have insured a safe passage from the cooldown time for Utsu NI. Back to whats FUN..id say ninja is the most fun job in the game. I use to complain how ninja doesnt start with anything nor have any real strength nor weaknesses, but now i see it as a clean job that can be turned into almost anything the player wants. Also as Kiyo stated in another thread ninja reflects a persons skill and wilingness to put alot of effort into the game. You can be lazy PLD, DRK, DRG, just about any melee and get by. But since ninja has to work at every singke thing it does you will get the shaft at 30+ if you are lazy. Past 30 jobs become more defining.....no more MNK tanks no more odd subs (DRK/BLM or BLM/SMN anyone ><) Its a hard road to lvl ninja but its worth it. One last thing ninja is only expensive if you get real good pt. Besides, nin makes money FAST you just gotta find what works for you

[Kirk]

A firm "Ditto" to Mitsu and Kiyo's posts. This job is amazing, if you are dedicated. I might also mention that after 60 it requires an even further level of dedication than the levels before. Just as many quit at 60 as do at 40 and 50. If you make it that far though, you will find you can count the number of 60+ ninjas (NA at least) on one hand and you will most likely know them quite well as your peers. You will definately belong to a minority of well respected, well sought after professionals in the art of ninja blink tanking.

[Ozymandis]

Originally posted by Stanislav


Ninja is still better after 74 becuase ninjas evade when a warrior looses his Utsusemi really quick.

True, but WAR/NIN should deal more damage.

Is it possible to evade many attacks from ITs later on? I only played NIN to 37, but at that point NIN's evade makes a big difference.

[Kirk]

If they are really high level then no, you wont evade many if any attacks at all. But you will still be able to tank mobs like that with careful/skillful timing of utsusemi casts. The point of high evasion is to get mobs that are slightly lower in level IT like 140 xp a raw kill. They will miss you 40~60% of the time making your job as tank much easier and allow for skill chains of #5 normally and even #6 on occasion. Within this zone ninja really does shine.

Another purpose of high evasion is the tanking of HNMs. Makes the job alot easier with that high evasion.

[Ozymandis]

Originally posted by Kirk
If they are really high level then no, you wont evade many if any attacks at all. But you will still be able to tank mobs like that with careful/skillful timing of utsusemi casts. The point of high evasion is to get mobs that are slightly lower in level IT like 140 xp a raw kill. They will miss you 40~60% of the time making your job as tank much easier and allow for skill chains of #5 normally and even #6 on occasion. Within this zone ninja really does shine.

Another purpose of high evasion is the tanking of HNMs. Makes the job alot easier with that high evasion.

Thanks for answering my question. So basically on high ITs NIN/WAR and WAR/NIN post-74 should be about even, then? I know Ni with NIN main gets extra images, of course.

On this note, I really think WAR should be a "B" in evasion. A "C" in evasion, that's so low that it's not even worth bothering with.

[Stanislav]

Originally posted by Kirk
If they are really high level then no, you wont evade many if any attacks at all. But you will still be able to tank mobs like that with careful/skillful timing of utsusemi casts. The point of high evasion is to get mobs that are slightly lower in level IT like 140 xp a raw kill. They will miss you 40~60% of the time making your job as tank much easier and allow for skill chains of #5 normally and even #6 on occasion. Within this zone ninja really does shine.

Another purpose of high evasion is the tanking of HNMs. Makes the job alot easier with that high evasion.

Umm.. What kind of evasion do you have?

I have +64 and +74 at night (wil lbe+72 and+82 at night once Iget Ungar Boomerang) and I evade 60% of what attacks me..

As for the WAR dealing more dmg.. WS of cource but with normal hits NIN hits about 6-8 while WAR only swings 4 times.


NIN also has subtle blow which WAR doesn't and it really does have a nice effect.

[Ozymandis]

We get Subtle Blow from our sub. I'm pretty sure I saw it listed on my Traits page