Confused?

[Navy]

I had my heart set on ninja from the time I pre-ordered my ffxi... Lately i have been looking into the job since it is not that far away. Some say ninja are unable to tank some say they are great... I don't know who to believe. I am just wondering if I could get some opinions on the pros and cons of a ninja. Also I do not want to start a war on pal vs. ninja I just want some honest opinions why ninja makes good/bad tank.

[Omni]

a ninja can only fully tank after lvl 37. that is when we get utsusemi ni. once u have that, you can cycle utsusemi ichi and ni. for example:

cast ni before fight.
take 4 hits
cast ni again
take 4 hits
cast ichi
take 3 hits.
repeat btw ichi and ni.

now before 37, ninja is probably at best backup tank or puller. since ichi wears off so quick, and with a 30s cooldown timer to limit u from recasting right away.

[Navy]

Yea I knew ninja couldn't tank until lvl 37... I was talking about high lvls.

[Lan'Urk]

At high lvls NIN can tank greatly but there is a catch. They have to be very skilled and rich to do so. NIN is very unstable and dangerous to have around, but if the player is skilled enough he can make up for those draw backs.

CONS
NIN has very weak natural defense, meaning if the mob breaks your blink cycle ure dead... and we all know what happens when the tank dies. Not to mention silence and stone, that amounts to dead Ninjas. Ninjas also have fewer hate gathering options (lack of sentinel, shield bash, rampart, cures etc...) so they rely on few other things. Ninjutsu primarily, Blink, and poison being on top of the priority list. the elemental ones are waste of money imho but then again you can try at your own risk. Ninjas also rely on their damage output, so a good weapon is a must. Now what differenciate a good Ninja from a mediocre one is throwing skills. Most ninjas dont use that, but from accounts of those who has (I have not experieced first handed) it makes a world of difference.

PROS
If played right Ninjas can be godly. Damage negation is the best form of damage midigation possible, unfortunatly no PLD can match that. Good Ninjas can solo a few HNMs no problem. add a SMN to that equasion and you will be pretty safe.

So the biggest advantage Ninjas have over PLD imo is the damage negation, which amounts to less downtime. However the advantage of a PLD is the safety of a natural tank, that doesnt rely on spells to survive, and will seldom get oneshotted in case shit happens.

Things to keep in mind.

Ninja is the most expensive job period. You will be spending A LOT more money to perform just as well as a PLD, and thats what made me give up on Ninja. However ninja possess the cool factor and diversity that adds a lot of fun to the game experiene, so I say, if ure like farming Ninja is going to be fun for you, if you dont... dont bother.

Ninjas arent as ungodly at endgame as most people say, a lot of high lvl mobs have some nasty AoEs that rape Ninjas, so it will pretty much equal to a PLD at high end, but still one of the best endgame options. I saw a WAR/NIN 74+ solo Lumber Jack in batallia, it was very impressive.

Do not think ure the best tank till 37. that amonts to dead ninjas with bad reputations. Expect being a puller and switching provoke with other tanks. However after 37 its your time to shine.

After 74 is when you get pushed around. at 74 WAR/NIN will perform just as well as you, but that isnt much of an issue really, unless ure a proud prick :D.

Also keep in mind I'm a PLD, and have an open mind towards my competitors. I do not think they are any better or worse than I am, I understand my weakness as I try to learn their own. My Ninja experience is more from observation than actually playing, but still im pretty confident its quite helpful ^_^ d

~Lanurk

[Navy]

Yea, your information was helpful. Right now I'm debating Ninja/warrior or Thief/Ninja. To me right now it seems Thief/ninja is more ninja-like than if you play ninja/warrior, but ninjas look so cool... I think Thief/ninja may be more what I am looking for. A great puller that can determine who has aggro is more my style.

[Omni]

Originally posted by Navy
Yea I knew ninja couldn't tank until lvl 37... I was talking about high lvls.

you arent even a nin yet. just filling your noobself in bud.

wow, a pld that doesnt have a grudge against ninjas? thats awesome. id love to see more of these open minded posts from plds. you rock man. and your info is pretty much on the dot. id have to say tho, elemental debuffs are useless if you use the ichi version. the only versions that do anything worth while are the ni versions. you can magic burst for upwards of 115dmg as well as aide ur weapon skills.

[Mitsu]

LOL...umm NIN/WAR at 74 is in NO WAY, even CLOSE to compareable to a NIN/WAR at 74.
WAR/NIN
At 74 war best weapon is G axe hands down. If a war is blink tanking, Utsusemi takes one attack round per cast. If war is using Gaxe then he is shutting himslef out of some damage which in turn decreases hate. ALSO Utsusemi is nerfed when subbed, instead of 4 shadows you get 3 couple that with war less-than-impressive evasion you mainly have a GIMPED nin that can only cast utsu and hit LESS.
NIN/WAR
At 74 even without TRYING a ninja at this lvl will have naturally high evasion. Any ninja will tell you JUST ONE MISS means a hell of a lot of difference when tanking. Also at 66 a ninja's damage is quite high which leads to less issuses with hate control. I personally kept hate perfectly with a RNG (wearing over 10mill in equip, spamming bullets). Also you really dont need to spam ninjutsu at this lvl unless you get bored or want to Skill ninjutsu. Now for the damage part, when you get blade:jin, Ten you will see alot more damage from ninja. Usually range from 200-500 on Totetote+ (IT) mobs.

Also i know a few 75 war and they would rather not tank. Trust me no ninja is in fear of much comp at high lvls. PLD and ninja have thier purpose. There are a few mobs that i wouldnt TOUCH, down right REFUSE to tank (Fafnir #1 on my list of non-nin tankables). But there are also times when a pld would get raped, mainly from trying to lvl in spots too hard for you at current lvl. As far as the harder HNM goes ....I LOVE having a PLD or 2 around^^

[Navia]

Ninja's are the best tanks in melee heavy parties (5 melee job creating 2-3 skillchains per kill, with 1rdm or whm hanging in the back curing status, spot healing). Ninjas work best against slower, harder hitting monster - ninja fighting higherlevel mandragora monster that double attacks and counters often = much pain.

Rumor:
I heard Ni when ninja is subbed has a longer recast time, anyone verify? Haven't been in game a few days, a friend said he heard someone complaining about it in game :sweat:

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Lan'Urk
At high lvls NIN can tank greatly but there is a catch. They have to be very skilled and rich to do so. NIN is very unstable and dangerous to have around, but if the player is skilled enough he can make up for those draw backs.

~Lanurk

Man I love this line! Thanks Lanurk You really make all us ninja's feel proud.

[Narru]

Originally posted by Mitsu
LOL...umm NIN/WAR at 74 is in NO WAY, even CLOSE to compareable to a NIN/WAR at 74.
WAR/NIN
At 74 war best weapon is G axe hands down. If a war is blink tanking, Utsusemi takes one attack round per cast. If war is using Gaxe then he is shutting himslef out of some damage which in turn decreases hate. ALSO Utsusemi is nerfed when subbed, instead of 4 shadows you get 3 couple that with war less-than-impressive evasion you mainly have a GIMPED nin that can only cast utsu and hit LESS.

You mentioned all cons for War/Nin, so I'll list one of the pros you seemed to have missed:

- With Great Axe you're provoke will be stronger. Take two exact same characters in the exact same gear, with the exact same stats. Equip one with Gaxe, the other with two katanas. The Gaxe provoke will win.

[Lan'Urk]

Weapon does not affect provoke at all, unless it has +emnity. There are a few theories of what affects provoke's potency however, and the one that its mostly spoken of is CHR. Provoke might also be nerfed for SJ, but I highly doubt. I'm sorry, but I believe the pros you listed for WAR/NIN are not valid. However in my opinion the pros of WAR/NIN is the better Defense, allowing the Warrior to take a few hits to make up of the nerf of the Utsusemi... the slightly higher damage output, and thats due the various skills WAR get like Warcry and Agressor, and the better selection of weapons. Also another advantage of WAR/NIN is versatility for renkeis, since WARs can use several other weapons more efficiently than NIN/WAR. But as far as blink tanking goes, yes NIN/WAR is the master, but I think a WAR/NIN is a force to be taken seriously by all the PLD/WAR and NIN/WARs alike

~Lanurk

[Tab Key]

Originally posted by Mitsu

ALSO Utsusemi is nerfed when subbed, instead of 4 shadows you get 3

when I tagged along to do shadow lord fight a while back, there was a 75 thf/nin who casted Ni and Ichi. Ni took 4 hits and ichi took 3 hits. there was no nerf in her shadows

[Stanislav]

Ninja is the best tank at 75% of the situations. People say "Ninja is a good tank as long as fighting one monster at a time", this may be true ONLY IF the ninja has poor evasion. Last night I took Amemet and a Lizards linked are the same time, I did have a WHM with me but he used maybe 50 MP then he usualy does. The Lizard only used maybe 2-3 of my shadows tops after I enfleebled it.

I can name one important HNM that is most camped that NIN can solo while a PLD would get raped even with a party of 6.. Serket. When I started ninja I just wanted to be a duel weilder and I always thought ninja would only drain my money but it is the otherway around. I have made more money with Ninja then I could have with any other job. I am currently making 1mil average for 8 hours camping Amemet and thats assuming that I get it atleast 2 times in the period of time.

If a ninja is using Enfleebling and has atleast evasion+60 then there is no way a PLD can be better becuase he ninja will basically take no damage and will get missed 50% of the time that saves a lot of MP.

I used to play Ninja with full Attack gear (ATK+60) but I switched to Evasion (EV+60) at 70 and I must say I can sleep while tanking becuase even If I let Blink wear off I can start casting Ichi and there is a 80% chance I will not get hit due to my evasion.

I am planning on getting a Scorpion harness this week and I am going to try get Ungar Boomerang which will put me up to 74 evasion and 84 at night. With this kind of evasion its just impossible to not be the best tank.

But remember PLD is a FREE job (Besides the DEF food) and you can be a decent tank without being rich but the only way you will be a good Ninja Tank is if you have millions of gear. I am currently wearing 4mil worth of gear and once I slap that harness on I will be up to 9.5mil =\ And It not going to stop there!

All I hve to say is ninja is the most fun job I played.. You get to change equipment alot and they can wear most things (I love to change equipment) and they are really wanted, even if your not JP a JP party will invite you for certain things andmore.

The only bad part about ninja is the small delay lag that we get cause we are in USA, sometimes this might effect you a little but not always.

Just my 2gil

[Mitsu]

lol it is true that nin is sooooo much fun to play. As it stands now i cant lvl any other melee job because its just plain boring. Also nin may be expensive , but lvling a ninja will teach you how to make gill FAST and in mass quantities. I see 70% of the ninja on my server sporting atk and acc gear, while it may SEEM good at first its really a waste of the potential a ninja has. Evade, AGI, maybe a little dex thrown in will make a NIN very good in tanking and solo situations. I dont know what other nin might be doing but myself and a few other high lvl nin has NEVER had a problem with hate past 37. Well i am glad to see that at least one PLD is open minded...god only knows that the only PLD on Rag that feel the same way are the oes that dont speak good english-.-. As far as amemet i TRIED soloing it yesterday but i think im gonna try again in 5 more lvls when im 72. I just cant do the damage to cut the fight down below 6-7 min after that point ones mind turns to goo...hahah i do beleive S-E is gonna change the way petrify works. Its just tooo easy to get around it.

Stain have you found straight evade to be more beneficail than a mix of evade+agi. Because i stacked my evade to ~55 and then after a PT i stacked AGI to 28 with 25 evade up gear and +7 evade skill torque, and i found that i parried and dodged more with the AGI/EVADE set. I must say it is fun building a ninja..now im workin on a haste set all i need is to get to 72 and get the rare/ex DW earrings and kill King Arthro a few more times and PRAYS that it drops a speed belt -.-..not to mention the LOVELY boots that byakko drops :drool: Too bad they are almost as rare as a damn Kraken Club >.>

[Stanislav]

I have AGI+12 without food but I find Evaison much better.

As for Amemet, you really need the +1 Stun Katanas to kill amemet which is whyit is importnt to be level 72 before you try. Soloing it when you have non-WHM sub is very hard and gives u a 40% death chance. I have only soloed it once without WHM but I have a WHM who helps me kill it for free itll I earn enough for a harness.

As for King Artho... I hate camping HNMs I think I can make 2mil from Amemet and buy the belt faster then getting it form Artho