Ninja/ Ranger :D (^_^)

[SurrealRogue]

Tested this outmyself.
Throwing items do not work with Barrage >_<
Tried this out with Pebbles and Darts

I had that idea myself a while back, seeing as how powerful Ninja shuriken are, a barrage would be insanely fun

Too bad tho :sweat:

[Cylus]

Originally posted by Spider-Dan

NIN/RNG only has an advantage over RNG/NIN if they spend more money. A RNG/NIN that uses guns would be superior... but very few RNG/NIN use guns pre-50 (I have seen zero). It is very cost-inefficient, compared to bows.

NIN vs. RNG equipment comparison (I will use normal guns, as I don't believe the +1 guns have been sold on my server yet):

NIN/RNG
Tanegashima- LV19, 15/600
Bullet- LV22, 46/240
Federation Tekko- LV25, RACC+3
Pirate's Gun- LV27, 20/600
Archer's Knives- LV28, AGI+2, RACC+20
LL+VE- AGI+6
Beetle Rings +1- LV21 RACC+4

RNG/WAR
Power Bow +1- LV16, 31/524, RACC+2, RATK+9
Great Bow +1- LV30, 44/524, RACC+2, RATK+12
Silver Arrow- LV24, 19/120
Horn Arrow- LV29, 17/90, RACC+5
Martial Slacks- LV24, AGI+2
RNG Necklace- RACC+5, RATK+5
Archer's Knife- RACC+10, AGI+1
R.F. Head + Feet- AGI+2
Beetle Rings +1- LV21 RACC+4

(rest of equipment not relevant)

Keep in mind that this is comparing a ~600k NIN/RNG to a ~100k RNG/WAR. Still, I think that a RNG with the above equipment would certainly qualify as "well-equipped."

So when you tally it up, at LV25:
NIN/RNG- 61/840, RACC+11, AGI+6
RNG/WAR- 50/644, RACC+15, RATK+14, AGI+4

At LV30:
NIN/RNG- 66/840, RACC+31, AGI+8
RNG/WAR- 61/614, RACC+30, RATK+17, AGI+5

Now obviously, when you factor in Berserk and Barrage, RNG/WAR will be better (as it should be). My point is simply that NIN/RNG will be comparable, and, IMO, still superior to most other DD classes until the 40s.

First I would like to point out the imbalanced equipment comparison. Most importantly giving NIN VE and LL and only giving RNG R.F. gear for the same slots.

I read what you said about the cost difference between the RNG and NIN, but you still compared them, and it's still lopsided.

You also left out gear for both sides. Ninja has access to a lot of RATK + gear that Ranger doesn't, but is lacking in a lot of RACC gear. However, Ranger has access to a lot of RNG specific gear, including guns, which will easily put Ranger over any ranged damage that Ninja can do. Also, Ranger can sub NIN to easily get two archer knives to get more RACC.

Also, if a Ninja uses two archer knives, their melee damage is going to be pretty pitiful.

Also factor in that Ninjas have a C ranking in Marksmanship, they will be missing much more than any ranger.

Lastly, Ranger will have 2 accuracy passive abilities at level 30, 3 at 50, and a 4th at 70, while Ninja will only have one until 60, and the most they will ever have is 2.

Sure a Ninja can do damage this way, but comparing it to Ranger is foolhardy. A Ninja will be second rate at best, even without the Ranger's barrage and weaponskills.

[Mitsu]

Well..if it doesnt work then thats just sad. Shuriken are in the ammo slot just like arrows -.-. Marksmaship SHOULD work i see no reason why it wouldnt. Oh well...one day they will FINISH ninja ...I hope:sweat:

[Cylus]

It's not that it doesn't work, just that someone else will do it better. It's like a sam/war using Polearm Pentathrust spam or a SAM/RNG using Archery. It's not what they're best at and they're trying to do another job's job.

It's not that Ninja is bad at it, it's just they are not best at it. Ninja seems to be one of those jobs that is more well rounded, which unfortunately, doesn't fit well with a lot of party setups that have clear and defined roles.

I think blink tanking is just something that was unintentional and Ninja somehow fell into that niche. Ninja can do quite a few jobs well, but never the best. I think it would take a specialized party setup to take full advantage of the class.

To summarize, NIN/RNG would do fine as a ranged damage dealer, just not as well as RNG. I've played NIN/RNG before and did my fair share of damage (party invited my as a damage dealer o.O).

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by Cylus
[B]

First I would like to point out the imbalanced equipment comparison. Most importantly giving NIN VE and LL and only giving RNG R.F. gear for the same slots.

...I pointed this out in the very beginning. The vast majority of RNGs in the level range I cited will not have LL or VE, so in order to be able to truly compete, a NIN/RNG should get them.

I read what you said about the cost difference between the RNG and NIN, but you still compared them, and it's still lopsided.

What is still lopsided? The cost?

You also left out gear for both sides. Ninja has access to a lot of RATK + gear that Ranger doesn't, but is lacking in a lot of RACC gear.

Exactly what NIN-specific +RATK gear did I leave out, in the levels I was talking about?

However, Ranger has access to a lot of RNG specific gear, including guns, which will easily put Ranger over any ranged damage that Ninja can do. Also, Ranger can sub NIN to easily get two archer knives to get more RACC.

It seems to be your point that RNG can equip almost all the important items I'm citing. Well, of course they can. That wasn't my point. It is obvious that a perfectly-equipped NIN/RNG will be thoroughly bested by a perfectly equipped RNG/NIN.

My point was simply that compared to what the majority of acceptable RNGs in the given level ranges are actually using, you can spend much more money and do a comparable job, if not better.

Also, if a Ninja uses two archer knives, their melee damage is going to be pretty pitiful.

Why is this relevant? You'd be spamming bullets, obviously.

Sure a Ninja can do damage this way, but comparing it to Ranger is foolhardy. A Ninja will be second rate at best, even without the Ranger's barrage and weaponskills.

And again, my point is that a second-rate RNG is still better a first-rate of other DD classes.

[Cylus]

What is lopsided is that you are comparing a VERY well equipped Ninja to a decently equipped anything else. The same could be said of any class though. Guess what? A perfectly equipped Ranger will totally blow out a majority of the decently equipped Ninjas? This argument is totally moot except for the fact that you will impress people who can't afford the best gear around.

I never said NIN-specific. But to name a couple items that RNG can't use that NIN can, Bastokan/Republic Subligar (ATTK/RATTK +3 or +5), and Federation Kyahans ATTK/RATTK +4).

Lastly, a second rate (even perfectly equipped) RNG would not do better than a similary well equipped DD class (except maybe DRG ). As levels progress it gets even worse because the difference in a C ranked weapon is going to become more and more noticeable.

PS. This is starting to remind me of theory fighter on SRK. :p

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by Cylus
What is lopsided is that you are comparing a VERY well equipped Ninja to a decently equipped anything else.

Well, of course. That's the whole point.

The same could be said of any class though.

Not true. In the levels being discussed, there really isn't any way for other melee classes (other than RNG, of course, and technically THF) to put out the type of damage being mentioned. There isn't an insanely high damage weapon available at those levels for other DDs, at any cost.

[Omni]

Originally posted by Trimpton
You would just be a gimp Ranger who couldnt use bows -- Youd have to end up paying more for the dmg(Since you would be limited to guns) and still wouldnt produce nearly as much damage.

If you dont want to blink tank dont play ninja, thats like saying "I want to play paladin but I dont want to tank."

you dont know what you are saying. ninja can use bows as well as guns. not EVERY bow available but we can still use them. before you make a statement you should check your facts, because you just end up sounding like an ass.

ive seen many jobs subbing rng, and its not half as bad as you think. when u sub rng, u can use all weapon skills besides the last 2 i believe. so when you get to 60+ you can have sidewinder as a weapon skill, which is pretty nice if youre just there to deal damage.

and just fyi, ninjas are not natural tanks. we've just become that way, and learned how to do it pretty well. for MOST situations, we can tank well, but for times when you have multiple enemies or enemies that have multi-hit skills, we tend to eat it. im a ninja tank and its great being able to let my pt chain quickly and efficiently, but at times, i almost want square to nerf ninja so we cant tank. after 3-4 hrs staring a the combat log for "Shadow image disappears...." and keeping track of how many been used it really gets tiring.

so for those that dont want to tank as ninja, go for it! just make sure u have ur utsusemi so you dont add extra burden to the mages. use ur enfeebles and weakening ninjutsu to help out. magic burst renkeis as well. do all you can to deal dmg. half ass ninjas (half ass anything for that matter) dont cut it. if theres one thing ive noticed about this game, there is no one way to play anything. there is no best race/job combo. it all depends on the player.