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  • NIN/RNG using guns: drawbacks?

    As I have stated before, I despise the WAR job (the only reason I play NIN is for RNG & THF sub). I tried to play NIN/THF, but I felt useless and guilty for leeching exp.

    So I thought, "What's the best way to solve a problem? Throw money at it!"

    I went out with my RNG and skilled up throwing and marksmanship, then bought a bunch of LV18 shuriken, a gun, and some LV22 bullets, plus the HQ -ACC +RACC rings. (my NIN was LV19 at the time)

    I used an /equip change macro for ranged attacks (switch to RACC rings, /ra <t>, switch back to melee rings), and spammed shuriken through LV22.* Once I hit 22, I switched to bullets.

    Compared to what my RNG was doing at the same levels, spamming shuriken was expensive and useless, but I am pleasantly surprised with the gun results. I do way more damage than I was doing with my RNG at the time (guns > bows at LV22, obviously) and I would say that my accuracy is maybe a little worse. Additionally, bullets are much more readily available on my server (at the rate I go through shuriken, I would easily sell out the AH).

    I also have more skillchain possibilities; with katana in main, I've got four different types of WS available for renkei. (Transfixion, Scission, Liquefaction, Reverberation) I can chain with any LV1 WS in the game (not that that really matters, since all that anyone does at low levels is Fusion or Distortion... but I've got those two well-covered).

    Before I resume leveling, I'll get a pair of LL boots, and I have my VE pin waiting for me once I hit 24. At that point, my accuracy should be comparable to what it was as a RNG (without the uber equip).

    So, assuming one is willing to dump large sums of gil into it, what are the drawbacks of NIN/RNG (as compared to other damage dealing classes)?

    *note: To all the NIN/WARs out there who spam shuriken... you guys are insane. Without my RACC rings and/or Sharpshot, I would have problems hitting the ground with ranged consistently. (and yes, my throwing was capped)

    Centurio X-I 1/1 - Celphie 1/1 - Deadly Dodo 0/2 - Doppleganger Dio 0/1 - Jaggedy-eared Jack 0/7 - Joo Duzu the Whirlwind 1/1 - Leaping Lizzy 2/16 - Mimas 0/1 - Odqan 1/9 - Orcish Wallbreacher 0/1 - Ose 1/3 - Sagittarius X-XIII 1/1 - Serpopard Ishtar 3/6 - Silk Caterpillar 1/2 - Tom Tit Tat 0/2 - Trickster Kinetix 0/2 - Valkurm Emperor 6/10 - Wyvernpoacher Drachlox 1/1

  • #2
    Wait, are you saying Nin/Rng > Rng/Nin at level 22 damage wise?

    If you're gonna go that approach, and you said you were having a little bit of a problem hitting the target, why not switch out to all +AGI or +Ranged Acc gear? Try that and let us know how often you miss.

    Comment


    • #3
      Oddly enough, I have a couple times had my seek flag up as a nin/war, and then upon asking if they would like me to blink tank, I had been asked to play a damage dealer.

      Not one to turn down a party invite from a decent, if not odd, looking group or a challenge to play the game at a new angle, I told them I would be there momentarily, and that I had to get some new gear.

      Luckily, my Ranger and ninja are both within about the same level range, and so I decided going the ranged damage route was the way I could get the most DPS.

      Got my Pirate's Gun and a lot of bullets (Juji Shurikens seem hard to come by these days), grabbed an archer knife, VE, Leaping Boots, beetle rings +1, drone earrings, and a lot of +attk/+ranged attack gear (mostly level 25 HQ conquest stuff), and subbed /RNG.

      Unfortunately, Ninjas only have a "C" for marksmanship, so I still had problems hitting with the accuracy that I was used to as a Ranger. Even after the bard used Hunter's Etude on me, I still only had maybe a 60-65ish% hit rate with the gun, though I was hitting very hard when I did.

      I think I may have had better results if I did use Juji Shurikens, possibly a 80% or higher hit rate, but I couldn't tell you.

      I did only equip 1 archer knife so I could have a katana in main hand for SC, so I don't know how much it would improve with 2 archer knives.

      Basically, it's workable, but you will never come close to the ranger accuracy (I rarely miss with my ranger now), esp only using guns because RNG gets a lot of very good RNG only guns (Serpentine, Hellfire). Throwing may get you closer, but very costly, probably more than blink tanking. But either way, you will be a second rate Ranger wannabe IMO.

      I don't miss all that much with Shurikens as a nin/war blink tanker
      Jobs as of 29 Sep 04

      RNG-56, NIN-49, WAR-40, THF-39, PLD-33, SAM-31.

      Windurst Rank 6

      Comment


      • #4
        The only problem I see with guns is that I cant find anything better than the level 42 Neroshiki thats 28/600. Everything past that is RNG only unless theres an Rare+EX gun off some NM.

        3 Mithra are better than 1...
        Sapphire - Valefor 30RDM/15THF
        Navia - Valefor 70SAM/63NIN/42SMN/42RNG/60DRK
        Navii - Valefor 70SAM/64NIN/42SMN/50RNG/60WHM


        Navia - Asura (ret.) 75NIN/75RNG/55WHM/37WAR/37SMN/28THF
        Goldsmithing (99.0 + 3) / Clothcraft (60+1) /Smithing (60.0)/BoneCraft (60) / Alchemy (60) / Cooking (30)

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        • #5
          o.0

          Archer Knifes are Rng only.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by qweezy
            o.0

            Archer Knifes are Rng only.
            no they're not

            http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?fitem=71

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Narru
              Wait, are you saying Nin/Rng > Rng/Nin at level 22 damage wise?
              Not exactly. NIN/RNG using guns does more damage than RNG/NIN using bows, but obviously not RNG/NIN using guns. It's just that very few RNG use guns at such a low level... bullets aren't as cost efficient as arrows. And NIN can't use longbows, so arrows are out.

              If you're gonna go that approach, and you said you were having a little bit of a problem hitting the target, why not switch out to all +AGI or +Ranged Acc gear? Try that and let us know how often you miss.
              There's really not much else to switch out to. Even as a RNG, the only other AGI/RACC gear I had early on were:

              AGI+1 headband (replaced with VE)
              AGI+1 boots (NIN can't use, I'll replace with LL)
              AGI+1 gloves (NIN can't use)
              AGI+1 dagger (sh*tty damage, but I might try it)
              Ranger Necklace (NIN can't use)

              At 28, I can switch to two Archer's Knives, and my RACC should be equal or better than most RNG/WARs. (Of course, I won't have Barrage or Berserk though.)

              I'm not really worried about higher-level stuff, as NIN is getting retired at 37; I only use it for a sub.

              Centurio X-I 1/1 - Celphie 1/1 - Deadly Dodo 0/2 - Doppleganger Dio 0/1 - Jaggedy-eared Jack 0/7 - Joo Duzu the Whirlwind 1/1 - Leaping Lizzy 2/16 - Mimas 0/1 - Odqan 1/9 - Orcish Wallbreacher 0/1 - Ose 1/3 - Sagittarius X-XIII 1/1 - Serpopard Ishtar 3/6 - Silk Caterpillar 1/2 - Tom Tit Tat 0/2 - Trickster Kinetix 0/2 - Valkurm Emperor 6/10 - Wyvernpoacher Drachlox 1/1

              Comment


              • #8
                Interesting..

                It sounds like a pheasable alternative for people using Ninja just to level it for sub use, if they just hate tanking that much. Ofcourse in the long run its not a great alternative, but for that short, pre 37 period of time where being a blink tank isn't as high of a priority as it is after that. You can do it to a point, but its not constantly asked and it sounds like it works at those levels better than Ninja/Thief for sure.

                Unfortunatly it is kind of a wannabe ranger so it should hardly be considered an all out main job combo more than an alternative at earlier levels.

                If only there were more ways to use Shuriken, then it'd be an interesting alternate sub to /War if you ever were called on to be a damaging role instead (No matter what it does happen from time to time) If you were willing to focus money it'd be a nice way to spam some pretty ok damage.

                Later on though the costs of making this combo would be well...I think the only players that wouldn't be broken by those astronomical costs are player's like Ragnarok's Luffia.


                -(She's this player in Rag who's one of those players that controls the flow of the AH practically, those on Rag who are of some level usually know who she is)


                ^. You have now seen everything..

                Name: Kiyotaru.
                Ethinticity: Windurstian.
                Home: Norg
                Main job: Ninja/Warrior (Current level's 50-60)
                Server:Ragnarok.

                Linkshells: Come and go.

                Comment


                • #9
                  At no time will I suggest that /RNG is the replacement for /WAR.

                  I'm just trying to do my best to find a practical, non-gimped (even if ridiculously expensive) alternative to /WAR. The way I see it, if I can respectably simulate a RNG in the pre-37 levels (even at a much higher cost), then I'm bringing plenty to the table.

                  A "wannabe ranger" (as you put it) might not be a bad thing... if you're going to try to replicate another job, replicating the best DD is a good place to start.

                  Centurio X-I 1/1 - Celphie 1/1 - Deadly Dodo 0/2 - Doppleganger Dio 0/1 - Jaggedy-eared Jack 0/7 - Joo Duzu the Whirlwind 1/1 - Leaping Lizzy 2/16 - Mimas 0/1 - Odqan 1/9 - Orcish Wallbreacher 0/1 - Ose 1/3 - Sagittarius X-XIII 1/1 - Serpopard Ishtar 3/6 - Silk Caterpillar 1/2 - Tom Tit Tat 0/2 - Trickster Kinetix 0/2 - Valkurm Emperor 6/10 - Wyvernpoacher Drachlox 1/1

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Yeah it sounds pretty alright as an alternative to /War if you're asked to be put in a damage dealer position.


                    ^. You have now seen everything..

                    Name: Kiyotaru.
                    Ethinticity: Windurstian.
                    Home: Norg
                    Main job: Ninja/Warrior (Current level's 50-60)
                    Server:Ragnarok.

                    Linkshells: Come and go.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I tried subbing ranger at the at 74/25 ninja/ranger, and althought it is true you can hit alot with the gun and do lots of damage there is one major drawback I find.

                      Your best WS after Slugshot/Sidewinder are all EX, meaning you need Ranger as main job. Assuming you are fine with losing the other WS after skill level 175, you got another problem. Inherently Slugshot/Sidewinder are extremely low in accuracy. With the ninja AF pants and about plus 12ish agil, plus the aim ability on and Scorpion rings, and a plus 1 bow, I was able to get 1 hit out of 4 on sidewinder at 300% on an �度 crab. (I think thats decent in english version)?

                      Anyways I looked up what good things I could use to boost my range accuracy. Most of it was not ninja usable save the super expensive ones, Peacock Charm, Spectacles etc.

                      This may improve once i get the ranger up to 37 because at 30 you get increased ranged accuracy. Plus there is barrage to help do damage. But just from the fact that I don't get to use all the WS off of gun and bow makes it at best something to try when you are in an alliance of 18 rushing some place for some coffer keys or quest items.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Reaper
                        Anyways I looked up what good things I could use to boost my range accuracy. Most of it was not ninja usable save the super expensive ones, Peacock Charm, Spectacles etc.
                        No doubt that it would certainly be insanely expensive to maintain a NIN/RNG. You would need some of the craziest equipment in the game (Spectacles/Peacock, Optical Hat, etc.). At higher levels, I would think that NIN/RNG would only seriously be an option for a rich, high-level RNG that has most of the needed gear already.

                        I don't really think that bows are a viable option for NIN/RNG. Generally speaking, shortbows are the suck.

                        Centurio X-I 1/1 - Celphie 1/1 - Deadly Dodo 0/2 - Doppleganger Dio 0/1 - Jaggedy-eared Jack 0/7 - Joo Duzu the Whirlwind 1/1 - Leaping Lizzy 2/16 - Mimas 0/1 - Odqan 1/9 - Orcish Wallbreacher 0/1 - Ose 1/3 - Sagittarius X-XIII 1/1 - Serpopard Ishtar 3/6 - Silk Caterpillar 1/2 - Tom Tit Tat 0/2 - Trickster Kinetix 0/2 - Valkurm Emperor 6/10 - Wyvernpoacher Drachlox 1/1

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          NIN/RNG going all out guns with a C rating in marksmanship??



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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by AntAnt
                            NIN/RNG going all out guns with a C rating in marksmanship??



                            Meanwhile, for the levels I cited so far, a THF/x is basically required to use either a D rank sword, or E rank H2H. Gasp.

                            In the case of NIN, the weapon rank isn't even relevant. With full RACC gear (including Archer's x2), your accuracy will be BETTER with a C rank gun than it could possibly be with an A rank katana, for a long time. NIN/RNG will have >30 RACC bonus (not including RNG accuracy trait). You cannot even approach that with ACC gear, for quite a while... and most of the uber ACC gear gives the same amount of RACC too.

                            At LV45, Katana caps 10 skill points higher (138) than Marksmanship (128). By doing nothing more than equipping an Archer's Knife in the sub slot, you have eliminated the accuracy difference. At LV60, the difference is 13 points (203 vs 190). If you are equipping two Archer's Knives, you're still far ahead of the weapon rank curve.

                            Centurio X-I 1/1 - Celphie 1/1 - Deadly Dodo 0/2 - Doppleganger Dio 0/1 - Jaggedy-eared Jack 0/7 - Joo Duzu the Whirlwind 1/1 - Leaping Lizzy 2/16 - Mimas 0/1 - Odqan 1/9 - Orcish Wallbreacher 0/1 - Ose 1/3 - Sagittarius X-XIII 1/1 - Serpopard Ishtar 3/6 - Silk Caterpillar 1/2 - Tom Tit Tat 0/2 - Trickster Kinetix 0/2 - Valkurm Emperor 6/10 - Wyvernpoacher Drachlox 1/1

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Reaper
                              I tried subbing ranger at the at 74/25 ninja/ranger, and althought it is true you can hit alot with the gun and do lots of damage there is one major drawback I find.

                              Your best WS after Slugshot/Sidewinder are all EX, meaning you need Ranger as main job. Assuming you are fine with losing the other WS after skill level 175, you got another problem. Inherently Slugshot/Sidewinder are extremely low in accuracy. With the ninja AF pants and about plus 12ish agil, plus the aim ability on and Scorpion rings, and a plus 1 bow, I was able to get 1 hit out of 4 on sidewinder at 300% on an �度 crab. (I think thats decent in english version)?
                              this is wrong. if a ws is EX it means you need to have a main job or subjob to use it. if you sub rng, you do get sidewinder. i even have a video of this 66 sam/rng using sidewinder on bloodtear. you will obviously get it a lot later than a rng, but you still get it nonetheless.

                              if a ws is SP, that means only the mainjob gets to use the ws.

                              if there is any discrepency about this please check http://www.ausystem.org/~aushacho/gbox/ff/skill-e.html

                              scroll down to archery, it will say sidewider is EX Rng. meaning if you have it as a sub, you do get it.
                              Omni@Remora: NIN75 RNG75 MNK75 COR75 BST64 BRD53
                              ♪♫ San d'Oria Complete ♪♫ ZM Complete ♪♫ CoP Complete ♪♫ AM Complete ♪♫

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