Entertainment anyone? ^^;

[gomenasai]

--> Disclaimer: This has nothing to do with the benefits or downfalls of and job/ subjob combination. It is not an argument over one combination or another, nor is it an excuse for my own; it is merely a humble observation by yours truly (^.~) Being the discussion group of so much controversy i felt this little number would fit well here :}

*sigh*

...

*cracks knuckles*

Okay...

Something i don't quite understand about this game is how much i dislike a great deal of the players' motives

Most mid to high level players are so concerned with leveling efficiency i think they lose sight of the reason for playing the game in the first place. The subjobby system that FFXI uses, i think, is a wonderful way to customize your avatar and online personality; though perverted by endless players on a grail hunt for the ideal, cookie-cutter product. What happened to spontinaeity? creativity? ...entertainment?

Has the game really gotten any more difficult in the last 43 levels? So much that a perfect, idealistic, mechanical group of players is desperatly needed? Not that i can see. Enemies level along with you and adapt in difficulty with your wider library of abilities, be they magical or physical. There are some greater challenges further through (BCNM, job quests, summons, etc) but for the most part it's the same game all the way through.

What's the difference between a level 20 character and a level 75? The level 75 has the time, patience, or determination (or an imbalance in real life/ fantasy responsibilities ) in which to play for so long.

It would be fun to see some forum thread titled, "How to get the most f u n out of your party: a how-to"

And just what was this forum created for? Flames or thoughtful, polite, and most of all useful discussion?

Call me naive, but it's my belief that we should save the endless banter and mud-slinging for things that matter, like reality, and be worried more about how to enjoy ourselves

--> I know there are many exceptions to these thoughts, and i know individual motives differ from player to player, but try and think of this more as a general idea or goal, something to keep in mind

Well there we go, i left a big open spot soaked in gasoline for all you lil angsty guys to nab me, enjoy :D

[Bamce Sylph]

anybody got a lighter?

[Kirk]

*Flame on*

J/K

I think the reason why efficiency is important especially at high levels is that the core conecpt of this game is team work. Unless you're a BST you cannot solo past 13 effectively. So you have to rely on other people. Now in that situation you have to stop thinking about your individuality and more about how you can aid the team. This is the difference. This is why you need to make your character efficient. It's not because people want you to conform to some rule. It just that you have to be considerate of other peoples time. Most people want to accomplish something when they log on to play. For a lot of people that is leveling. To gain the experiece needed at higher levels 60+ i takes a fair amount of time. That time is reduced if your party is efficient. If you have an inefficient component in your party, most people will view that as that person wasting their time. Now like you said if you just want to make a character you find fun, regardless of its efficiency, then its best to seek out others with the same goal and party together. Then you're not hurting anybody. But when you refuse to accept that you _must_ play with others, and that by playing an inefficient character setup, you are wasting other people's time, then you are really just being self centerted and not a team player. And that really doesnt have much of a place in FFXI at all.

[hocuspocus]

see, this is what happens when people sub thf, they come up with these *lets go back to basics* posts.





seriously though, she makes a few really good points there.

[Cloak]

Careful gomen... a lot of the NIN/WAR fanboys get thier panties in a twist when you talk like that.

[Kiyosuki]

Yeah its something every player in this game thinks about at least once, no matter what they preach now or later. Concept of fun vs. concept of efficiency.

Your more than welcome to use whatever class combination you like. No one's got the right to tell you not to. But the reason why players start favoring some combo's over others is because making fights go by faster starts to get really important since you'll need so much more experience to gain levels. Some job combo's flow better with the rest of the party.

Another thing is, is that while it may be fun for yourself to do a certain combo, your fun may infringe on another person's fun. The party could be dragged down because one person wants to be a duel wielding White Mage.

Some combo's just don't work at all, and some combo's actually do work ok, then there's combo's that leave them all in the dust. What it boils down to eventually is how desired you want to be. I know how you feel, my individuality is very important to me. I'm a customize guy. I like to come up with things that are unique to me, but unfortunatly this game doesn't support individuality and customization in its design very well. Parties are more like bodies than groups of people. Each person is a part of the overall body system. One person falling out of that balance could kill the body.

It depends on your definition of fun in the end I guess. I've lost a lot of old comrades on this game to the fact that they couldn't customize they're character in unique ways very much. Honestly...I'm not even sure why I still play the game myself. I guess I like to finish what I start, and I have a few people I play with that are counting on me.

The sub system in this game I think could of been made a lot more flexible, I think the game would of been a whole lot better if the programmer's took more cues from the FF Tactics series' sub job system. Room for unoverpowered job combo's and customization would be so much greater. The sub system now is so bare bones that some job combo's are just naturally going to be sub par and not work. A Sub is basically there to aid your main job's purpose, not give it extra abilities and make it more unique. Thats all there pretty much is to it.

You have to remember that in this game the fun of other's is in your hands too, not just your own, and vise versa. Thats the reason really. Some job combo's are pretty fun though. I think Nin/War's really fun not because of the blink tanking but because its a really flexible job combo to play around with. There's some unorthodox combo's that work alright if the player tries real hard too.

But there's things like the Duel Wielding Red Mages and Pld/Drk's that may be fun for the player, but seriously drag down the party since Pld's need provoke and Red Mages function so much better with a mage sub. So although you yourself are having fun, other's suffer for it.

[Arguile]

At lvl 5....and 10....and 20...and 30....the game was new, it was fun....lvling was an experience....and you could gain 2-3-4-5 lvl's in 1 session.


At lvl 53....lvling is no longer new....or fun....or an experience worth mentioning. It's long, tedious and i want to get it over with so i can go do what i really want to do. When i need 13 000xp to level once, believe me, i don't want to be "Creatite, original, entertaining", because no matter what i sub i still need 13k xp to lvl and it's boring as all hell.

So i want it done asap. And doing it asap means good xp flow, minimizing downtime and getting xp chain 4-5's over and over.

That's why people don't 'experiment' as much at higher lvl's because lvling has lost all it's fun. But we have to do it to get what we really want, or quit the game.

[Navia]

One of the reasons leveling efficiency becomes a big issue for people is that some jobs that use expendable items to do their job well, like RNG(arrow/bullet) and ninjas that go all out with powder and stars.

Jobs that dont spend any gil per monster, like a drg,drk,war or *cough* nin/thf *cough*:p don't see the extra time/expenses biting them in the ass when you join a pt thats getting a max of xp chain#2 for 175xp.
I know RNG/NIN are very picky about pt's they join because killing more slightly easier monsters burns more ammo than killing a few IT's, the same thing goes for nin/war using powder/shurikens.

Even if you are well funded and/or you craft your own stuff, why use maybe twice as much powder/food/stars/arrows/etc to get a level because people in your pt use some oddball job combination?

Up to 30, just about anything works, but when you get to the 50's and need 20k xp per level - you start to get picky about where you hunt and who you party with. I'd like to kill only about 80 robber crabs or so for a level in my 50s instead of 200+ with some 'creative' pt with less efficient job combinations.


Best place to have fun and be creative with jobs is when you go to farm, you can feel powerful and not make yourself look bad

[Phantom2040]

True but most nin/wars ive seen have high crafting lvl or have bought the scrolls. ammo is expensive ill say that much but most rngs i have in my party usually craft their ammo or accumulate tons of gil usually by farming NMs.

[Navia]

Again, even you craft your supplies, inefficient pt's mean more trips back to the AH/moghouse to craft. Time invested hunting NM/farming/resource gathering versus time getting xp will begin to lose its appeal.
If I have 5million gil in the bank, I still would prefer to not join bad parties that cause me to spend 2x more gil on supplies per level.

[Zeron]

Personally, I think an offbeat combo could be just as effective, given his/her party. I think the game is a lot more customizable then people make it out to be.

It's my believe that given the right setting, many more job combos can be just as effective as the "given" ones. Personally, I am a big fan of thinking outside of what other people tell me. If one combo really is THAT much better then the rest, I'll discover it on my own, not because someone told me it is.

-Z

P.S. Hehe, hey Fil. :D